|
Post by moorside on Feb 18, 2023 18:10:17 GMT 1
Thanks Tyresmoke, I'd never heard of the Natplan database but I checked it out and you're right, the stops are still listed there. I wonder how they can be removed from the database?
|
|
|
Post by stevieinselby on Feb 19, 2023 0:07:00 GMT 1
Your comments are based on that sver reliable source, BusTimes. It's like quoting Wikipedia Wikipedia is right at least 90% of the time. As is Bustimes. I would never use it as a definite source to say that an individual journey didn't run, or that a particular vehicle did/didn't run on a particular route. But when it does track a journey, the timestamps and locations it records are almost certainly correct (if you look at the actual data points and not the interpolated straight lines between them). From the evidence, it is safe to say that the 963 often does not run to Menston station, and when it does it is usually too late to allow the train connection. Although unusually on Friday, it did run to the station and did arrive on time 👍🏻
|
|
o539
Forum Member
Posts: 61
|
Post by o539 on Feb 19, 2023 21:17:43 GMT 1
Clarification has been gained from Connexionsbuses themselves, the 963 no longer serves Garnett Wharfe, instead the development is now going to be covered by the 781 and 923. The 781 serves the development at 10:23 towards Otley BS and at 12:38 away from Otley. The 923 serves the development at 12:23 towards Otley BS and at 11:13 away from Otley.
The updated timetables for these two services can be found on their website.
There will *still* be buses running through Garnett Wharfe, albeit at different times to when it was previously served by the 963 in years gone by.
The current situation with the 963 is being looked at due to the reorganization of most of Connexionsbuses' services as a result of the short notice on the new tenders, so I imagine that the uncertainty with that will be sorted out soon. To be fair they've done a pretty good job, given the circumstances, sorting out all the new 965,962, and 961 tenders after the short notice once the contracts had been awarded.
|
|
|
Post by peteleeds on Feb 20, 2023 7:53:47 GMT 1
Well according to bus times not best start for 965 connexions service. First journey of day so late starting looks like it won't run
Look to be using a decker too been a while since a decker used on this route
|
|
deerfold
Forum Member
Posts: 2,368
Member is Online
|
Post by deerfold on Feb 20, 2023 15:55:47 GMT 1
Clarification has been gained from Connexionsbuses themselves, the 963 no longer serves Garnett Wharfe, instead the development is now going to be covered by the 781 and 923. Does this clarification include an actual timetable for the 963?
|
|
o539
Forum Member
Posts: 61
|
Post by o539 on Feb 20, 2023 16:52:45 GMT 1
Clarification has been gained from Connexionsbuses themselves, the 963 no longer serves Garnett Wharfe, instead the development is now going to be covered by the 781 and 923. Does this clarification include an actual timetable for the 963? Not that I've been sent or seen no, that's why I just said further down on my previous post that it's being looked at. That's as far I know in regards to that matter, if I hear anything else I'd mention it of course.
|
|
deerfold
Forum Member
Posts: 2,368
Member is Online
|
Post by deerfold on Feb 20, 2023 17:39:45 GMT 1
Does this clarification include an actual timetable for the 963? Not that I've been sent or seen no, that's why I just said further down on my previous post that it's being looked at. That's as far I know in regards to that matter, if I hear anything else I'd mention it of course. Not great for passengers, then.
|
|
|
Post by westyorkshirebus on Feb 20, 2023 20:24:47 GMT 1
The 963 hasn’t tracked at all today so I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s been withdrawn, there doesn’t seem to be gaps in any of the interworking seen on BusTimes when it could run
I can’t see the need for a very limited shuttle from Otley to Menston when service 34 runs every 30 minutes and the 962 also runs hourly (although not in the morning peak)
|
|
WYBS
Forum Member
Watch-o
Posts: 1,489
|
Post by WYBS on Feb 21, 2023 0:33:39 GMT 1
Does anyone know how the 36 was looking today having had the 10 minute frequency reinstated?
|
|
lucyp
Forum Member
Posts: 142
|
Post by lucyp on Feb 21, 2023 1:13:06 GMT 1
Empty (which is a post Covid thing) and one behind the other (which was always a thing). It doesn't need that frequency, especially outside peak hours, which aren't really peak any more.
|
|
joseph
Forum Member
Posts: 1,139
|
Post by joseph on Feb 21, 2023 7:40:38 GMT 1
Empty (which is a post Covid thing) and one behind the other (which was always a thing). It doesn't need that frequency, especially outside peak hours, which aren't really peak any more. It does need to be if you've got a bus that's missed, I've been on it during the day on a week day between the Eccup stop and Aldi mid morning when the bus in front has missed and I can tell you it was rammed, this was about a year ago by the way so not that long ago, the weather was average too and there's never been anything special in mid February to warrant loads of people heading to Leeds so you can't argue it was a one off caused by certain circumstances.
|
|
deerfold
Forum Member
Posts: 2,368
Member is Online
|
Post by deerfold on Feb 21, 2023 10:40:03 GMT 1
Empty (which is a post Covid thing) and one behind the other (which was always a thing). It doesn't need that frequency, especially outside peak hours, which aren't really peak any more. You do get about a lot.
|
|
mattb7tl
Forum Member
Streetlites 🛐
Posts: 743
|
Post by mattb7tl on Feb 21, 2023 14:41:45 GMT 1
Does anyone know how the 36 was looking today having had the 10 minute frequency reinstated? I didn’t see any cancellations on the boards and both my buses managed to arrive. Passenger wise? I didn’t manage to use it before the pandemic but passing buses were anywhere between quarter to half full. It seems healthy enough, especially factoring in the higher fares. Edit: Placed proof of using the service to make what I’m saying credible 👍 Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by stephen01 on Feb 21, 2023 15:00:47 GMT 1
Does anyone know how the 36 was looking today having had the 10 minute frequency reinstated? Think that would have been better to wait to ask on the Fridqy rather then first week-day.
|
|
lucyp
Forum Member
Posts: 142
|
Post by lucyp on Feb 21, 2023 15:47:00 GMT 1
I wonder if it's more about a vanity project now, than a business case? If the flagship service that they always used to trumpet as running every 10 minutes doesn't run every 10 minutes, then what do they have left at Harrogate?
It's a large bus company running a tiny service. Their new composite timetable is all on one side of a piece of paper, and even then there is room for some advertising photos of places to go out to.
They only run 9 services, 10 if you count the not based in Harrogate, but operates there as the Flyer service, and that is only once per hour in each direction.
Of those, the 59 only runs 4 return journeys and only on Saturdays, not the other 6 days of the week.
The X6 operates 4 peak hours services in the morning and 4 in the evening only
The 24 only runs 7 return journeys at best a day, no evening services, and as we know that is a council supported service.
The 7 has been reduced to run only once per hour in each direction.
The 6 has had it's route shortened and runs every 30 minutes at best.
The 3 had been consolidated from 2 services to 1. Every 20 minutes in each direction at best.
The 2 runs every 20 minutes in each direction at best.
That leaves the 1 and the 36 (to and from Leeds, never to and from Ripon) with a 10 minute frequency at best. The 1 used to be every 7 minutes, so that too has been reduced.
The 1 reduces in frequency in the evenings and on Sundays.
Bizarrely, the 36 isn't even every 10 minutes at peak times, but it is at off-peak times. That is why I think it is a vanity project. Or is it a case of (as I repeatedly say on here) buses are for old people and students. Every 10 minutes during the time when old people and students will travel.
If you live in Harrogate and work in Leeds, (and isn't that what the service is supposed to be about, when you look at all those "business class" logos on the buses) then if you leave work just after 5:30, (and isn't that a standard finishing time), you will be waiting until 6pm for a bus.
I used the last 7 (22:20) from Harrogate to Wetherby last Sunday. 1 other person on board to Wetherby. In Wetherby, I walked past an X99 on it's way to Deighton Bar from Leeds (22:03 from Leeds). So empty, that the driver had turned all the lights off downstairs, just leaving the blue glow from the USB ports.
|
|
joseph
Forum Member
Posts: 1,139
|
Post by joseph on Feb 21, 2023 19:33:51 GMT 1
I wonder if it's more about a vanity project now, than a business case? If the flagship service that they always used to trumpet as running every 10 minutes doesn't run every 10 minutes, then what do they have left at Harrogate? It's a large bus company running a tiny service. Their new composite timetable is all on one side of a piece of paper, and even then there is room for some advertising photos of places to go out to. They only run 9 services, 10 if you count the not based in Harrogate, but operates there as the Flyer service, and that is only once per hour in each direction. Of those, the 59 only runs 4 return journeys and only on Saturdays, not the other 6 days of the week. The X6 operates 4 peak hours services in the morning and 4 in the evening only The 24 only runs 7 return journeys at best a day, no evening services, and as we know that is a council supported service. The 7 has been reduced to run only once per hour in each direction. The 6 has had it's route shortened and runs every 30 minutes at best. The 3 had been consolidated from 2 services to 1. Every 20 minutes in each direction at best. The 2 runs every 20 minutes in each direction at best. That leaves the 1 and the 36 (to and from Leeds, never to and from Ripon) with a 10 minute frequency at best. The 1 used to be every 7 minutes, so that too has been reduced. The 1 reduces in frequency in the evenings and on Sundays. Bizarrely, the 36 isn't even every 10 minutes at peak times, but it is at off-peak times. That is why I think it is a vanity project. Or is it a case of (as I repeatedly say on here) buses are for old people and students. Every 10 minutes during the time when old people and students will travel. If you live in Harrogate and work in Leeds, (and isn't that what the service is supposed to be about, when you look at all those "business class" logos on the buses) then if you leave work just after 5:30, (and isn't that a standard finishing time), you will be waiting until 6pm for a bus. I used the last 7 (22:20) from Harrogate to Wetherby last Sunday. 1 other person on board to Wetherby. In Wetherby, I walked past an X99 on it's way to Deighton Bar from Leeds (22:03 from Leeds). So empty, that the driver had turned all the lights off downstairs, just leaving the blue glow from the USB ports. Well, first of all may we remind you that you yourself just a couple of posts ago clearly beyond doubt stated that peak hours aren't really peak hours any more, so why should Transdev run every 10 minutes during a so called time which is no longer peak. Secondly, not surprised at your Sunday night findings, it's SUNDAY NIGHT! Many people won't travel on a Sunday night when they have work the next day and all those journeys are subsidised by local councils so you can blame them. Thirdly, what the hell did Alex do to you lol, you seem to have it in for his part of Transdev, never hear you slagging off the French arm for example. Did he sack you? Were you the shop owner in Wetherby? Did one of his drivers almost run you over? Or was it a simple case of chewing gum got stuck on your clothes and Alex said no to compo lol. Personally though, I'd laugh to high heaven should one day Transdev throw in the towel on the X98/9, and the 7 with Arriva providing a 2 hourly replacement using those E200 mini's on tender only as far as Seacroft lol, doubt it'd happen like but you never know, don't have nightmares now lol.
|
|
|
Post by nic on Feb 21, 2023 19:52:32 GMT 1
I used the last 7 (22:20) from Harrogate to Wetherby last Sunday. 1 other person on board to Wetherby. In Wetherby, I walked past an X99 on it's way to Deighton Bar from Leeds (22:03 from Leeds). So empty, that the driver had turned all the lights off downstairs, just leaving the blue glow from the USB ports. Your point is so irrelevant it's beyond stupid making it but here you are - your telling us what the services are like on a SUNDAY evening at 10pm at night. This is one of the very worst times to see what an evening service is like. So quite frankly I'll ignore this as it's irrelevant. Your aware all those services would also be funded? If you live in Harrogate and work in Leeds, (and isn't that what the service is supposed to be about, when you look at all those "business class" logos on the buses) then if you leave work just after 5:30, ( and isn't that a standard finishing time), you will be waiting until 6pm for a bus. Erm was back in your day but things have dramatically changed over the course of the last 10 years and particularly the last 2 years. 5:30pm isn't the traditional finishing time - Transdev know this. Meanwhile in Lucys' world we are still stuck in 1990's where 5:30pm is traditional finish time.
|
|
deerfold
Forum Member
Posts: 2,368
Member is Online
|
Post by deerfold on Feb 21, 2023 20:25:23 GMT 1
If you live in Harrogate and work in Leeds, (and isn't that what the service is supposed to be about, when you look at all those "business class" logos on the buses) then if you leave work just after 5:30, (and isn't that a standard finishing time), you will be waiting until 6pm for a bus. Why wouldn't you catch the 17.35 or the 1745? If you work so far from the route that you miss the 1745 then you'll have less than 15 minutes to wait for the 1800. You criticise buses for having a reduced frequency, but criticise the 36 for having increased its frequency. Transdev really can't win for you, can they? Would you rather have not had a 7 to get home on Sunday evening?
|
|
|
Post by peppy89 on Feb 21, 2023 20:44:14 GMT 1
I am in the industry myself as a driver and to be honest Sunday nights van get quite busy but probably just with teenagers going home or elderly coming back from the pub, I think transdev are trying their best to run a service to please everyone but clearly it's not quite working, however people are criticising the 36 but has anyone ever spared a thought that the 840 is in danger and that petitions are goin on to try to save the service, and of course talking of off peak and peak services how.many 'off peak' services do you see on the 843 rammed full of pensioners after half 9, I caught the 843 the other day from Scarborough at 2043 to York and had quite a healthy load but no one paid, and now the government has extended the 2 pound flat fare, the x98 and x99 will be quiet on a Sunday evening, every bus company is in the same boat not just transdev, however u can guarantee that the minute a company knocks a late evening service in the head Joe public are up in arms about it, I just think people get disappointed when they don't see a bus turn up never mind catching it, however not catchi g a service is wheee the problem lies, use it or lose it basis seems best in my opinion
|
|
|
Post by SCH117X on Feb 21, 2023 20:50:01 GMT 1
Back to reality rather the mindless waffle from one poster they did have an hiccup on the 36 yesterday with a Ripon bound bus failing just beyond Sheepscar resulting in a Leeds bound working from Harrogate being pulled so that bus could pick up the Ripon working onwards from Harrogate. One of the red Geminis being sent empty to Leeds to cover the return of the otherwise pulled working. The 10 minute interval makes the service almost turn up and go which makes it attractive to many, particularly those going to and from the north side of Leeds City Centre, over the train. Transdev Blazefield have never looked favourably on loss making jounreys and if the 10 minute interval now turns out to be too frequent due to changed post covid travel habits and more home working they will no doubt reduce it.
|
|
|
Post by rwilkes on Feb 21, 2023 20:51:26 GMT 1
Coastliner used to be the UKs most profitable company. New buses every year, one year old buses passed onto the other Blazefield companies. Always expanding and improving. The came free OAP travel. Completely underfunded. Company now reducing services, not the companies fault I am an OAP and the free travel was stupid idea which has destroyed rural buses and harmed all the others
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2023 21:02:42 GMT 1
Coastliner used to be the UKs most profitable company. New buses every year, one year old buses passed onto the other Blazefield companies. Always expanding and improving. The came free OAP travel. Completely underfunded. Company now reducing services, not the companies fault I am an OAP and the free travel was stupid idea which has destroyed rural buses and harmed all the others The free travel isn't the problem, the issue is the UK is rubbish at properly funding public transport (especially buses). Over the comments on routes 7 & X99 on a Sunday evening - although there will be a few passengers using it from the Wetherby/Harrogate direction, wouldn't it make more sense to judge them coming out of Leeds as that's where the main passenger flow would be at that time?
|
|
|
Post by stevieinselby on Feb 21, 2023 23:42:08 GMT 1
Coastliner used to be the UKs most profitable company. New buses every year, one year old buses passed onto the other Blazefield companies. Always expanding and improving. The came free OAP travel. Completely underfunded. Company now reducing services, not the companies fault I am an OAP and the free travel was stupid idea which has destroyed rural buses and harmed all the others Pretty sure that Coastliner never made a point of passing on 1-year-old buses, at least not in the last 25 years, they usually stayed at Coastliner for 4 or 5 years at least before being moved to lighter work. Also not sure of the evidence that it was "expanding and improving", when the service had been static for years – it was only in 2009 that they started trying to expand it with more frequent services between Leeds and York, after the introduction of ENCTS. Free travel was not a stupid idea per se, but the implementation of it on the cheap means that bus companies don't get enough remuneration for the free passengers they carry.
|
|
|
Post by rwilkes on Feb 22, 2023 0:07:40 GMT 1
I used to go to WYIS meetings and thats where I heard about the the vehicle transfers from Giles Fearnley who gave an annual talk The expansion was in frequency, later trips to Pickering and the Bridlington trips, now we get cuts. Free travel was great but they did not think about the cost or benefits which was stupid as we lost so many rural routes directly because of underfunding. On many rural routes NYCC pays slightly over £1 per OAP so even a full bus loses money. The Skipton K Lonsdale bus survives as Cumbria pays £3.50 per OAP. How can it be right thahte funding dpends on where the trip starts? Politicians thought they were helping buses, but in fact the fares were spent in shops and pubs instead of on the buses. It was a huge benefit to retail and the money came back to government in VAT and alcohol duty. But the governemnt did not see that. It also kept OAPs active and healthier.
|
|
lucyp
Forum Member
Posts: 142
|
Post by lucyp on Feb 22, 2023 12:15:21 GMT 1
Deerfold asked:
"Why wouldn't you catch the 17.35 or the 1745? If you work so far from the route that you miss the 1745 then you'll have less than 15 minutes to wait for the 1800."
Because they don't exist! Pick up a copy of the latest composite timetable for all the services available on the bus, called "The Harrogate Bus Guide" from a "The Harrogate Bus Company".
Look at the 36 timetable, which states "every 10 mins until 15:30". From Leeds bus station, Monday to Fridays, you will see a 17:10, a 17:30, an 18:00 and an 18:20.
|
|