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Post by nic on Jun 13, 2019 7:32:16 GMT 1
www.theguardian.com/business/2019/may/30/firstgroup-to-sell-greyhound-as-it-bows-to-activist-investors With this news in mind what do we think will happen to the operations here in West Yorkshire, which cover 1 large city & 3 large towns. Could it be split into 3/4 different operations or be sold as one large? Who do we think could buy it? Here is the list of options - Arriva - Could potentially buy it. In my opinion i hope they don't. Apart from the 110 and the latest investment on the Garforth/Kippax corridor the mess they've made in North Kirklees is more then enough evidence to suggest they'd make an absolute mess of some of the towns such as Huddersfield, Halifax and possibly Bradford. They would however gain a strong foothold in Leeds, giving them full coverage of Leeds area since First don't go anywhere near either the Gildersome or Rothwell corridors. Go Ahead Group - Very plausible company that could be very much interested in the West Yorkshire operations. What they do is very simple yet very effective in branding routes etc if you look at Go Ahead operations - Oxford Bus Company, Go North East, Brighton & Hove. Stagecoach Group - Again just like the above very plausible. They have a large operation in South Yorkshire - could they make it work in West Yorkshire too? Transdev - would make them pretty dominant in the Yorkshire and Lancashire area. This acquisition would however be huge for such a little company as they'd be acquiring a fleet size alone 3 fold of their own. They'd go up to 1,200 buses overnight. First West Yorkshire becomes a Municipal Bus Company - there are some very successful council ran bus companies out there. Lothian, the largest and most obvious, Cardiff Bus, Nottingham City Transport & Reading buses. All of which i would call successful. Could very well be an option. Is there any latest news on the article above? I know they were expected to meet on the 10th. But cannot find any news relating to that meeting.
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deerfold
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Post by deerfold on Jun 13, 2019 8:35:46 GMT 1
Trensdev aren't a little company. They're one of the largest international transport groups. It's true they don't have a large presence in the UK.
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Post by ricardoat4 on Jun 13, 2019 8:51:41 GMT 1
Good summary. Quick correction. Two large cities and two large towns. I'm from Bradford. We're dead touchy but luckily we love a cascade!
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ratty
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Post by ratty on Jun 13, 2019 12:25:56 GMT 1
The first option does not apply.Deutsche Bahn having announced, before First did, of the sale of Arriva in the UK. Didn't it?
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Post by nic on Jun 13, 2019 15:13:01 GMT 1
Trensdev aren't a little company. They're one of the largest international transport groups. It's true they don't have a large presence in the UK. Indeed they are. However when it comes to UK presence they are not the largest by any stretch of the immagination and it would seem that their operation is very Niche - the Blazefield group. If they were to acquire the FYW operation that would make them pretty dominant. With the Transdev backing from Europe and the cash reserves it is very much a contender. Good summary. Quick correction. Two large cities and two large towns. I'm from Bradford. We're dead touchy but luckily we love a cascade! Thank you. I do apologise, indeed you are correct Bradford is a city. Pardon my ignorance - bit embarrassing considering i was Bradford and still have family there. The first option does not apply.Deutsche Bahn having announced, before First did, of the sale of Arriva in the UK. Didn't it I didn't even have this knowledge about DB wanting to sell the Arriva UK operations. Very very interesting times ahead for the UK bus scene. |
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Post by SCH117X on Jun 13, 2019 16:55:28 GMT 1
Could be like First Manchester and sold off depot by depot so potentially a number of operators such that Bramley and Hunslet could end up with different operators.
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kendall17
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Post by kendall17 on Jun 13, 2019 17:05:04 GMT 1
I haven't seen anything about First Bus being split up beyond the sales that have gone through thus far. They'll be pushing to sell First Bus UK as a whole first.
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Post by jack97 on Jun 13, 2019 17:10:52 GMT 1
I would think it would be great if transdev took over Bradford. Would make perfect sense as they run alot of services to Bradford and around otley/guiesley. I reckon they can make better connections than first. They also do alot of school work in the Bradford area.
For me transdev in Bradford would be a perfect fit.
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Post by yorksrider on Jun 13, 2019 17:11:19 GMT 1
Out of the 4 options given
- Arriva,if they was not up for sale,i dont think they could get a takeover passed the CCA as it would them almost fully monopoly (even more so when you add the Tiger ops)
- Go Ahead,I Think this would be the best option of out all of them,with the First WY sharing similarities with GNE's area (Serving a larger city & a smaller city (Newcastle/Sunderland v Leeds/Bradford) plus a couple of smaller towns (Concord/Peterlee/North Shields v Huddersfield/Halifax/Todmorden) plus depending how the future of Firsts Manchester operations plays out it could help keep links across the 2 countys.
- Stagecoach, 50/50 on this one - On the positive side the Leeds/Bradford operations would be perfect for them,with a strong(ish in Bradfords case) network of routes plus a few longer distance & Express services,but would they really want Huddersfield & Halifax? Whilst as stated with Go Ahead,depending on FMs future it could be a good fit,but Stagecoach already left Huddersfield once,would they be up for returning?
- Transdev,whilst they would be ok with getting Huddersfield/Halifax & the 2 Leeds depots,i wonder if the CCA would get involved due to their operations in Keighley & already running alongside First on some corridors.
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Post by jack97 on Jun 13, 2019 17:12:25 GMT 1
I haven't seen anything about First Bus being split up beyond the sales that have gone through thus far. They'll be pushing to sell First Bus UK as a whole first. I very much doubt they would sell as a whole. They will have to split it. Bring back Yorkshire rider! |
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Post by gooderson1 on Jun 13, 2019 17:19:32 GMT 1
A thought to ponder on. Any sale of of the whole of FWY to another of the larger groups(even Go Ahead as they are now in Manchester and Hull) would almost certainly lead to a referral to The Competion and Markets Authority who have the power to say yes or no even if the operators agree a sale. A sale of each depot may be better option depending on which of the groups buys each depot. It would ideally need to be close to their current operations and be done in away to avoid the attentions n of the CMA. It is a mine field of competition legislation.
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Post by 576 Gemini 2 on Jun 13, 2019 18:02:05 GMT 1
Whoever buys Bradford I hope they introduce a new livery of Blue & Cream
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Post by jack97 on Jun 13, 2019 18:04:02 GMT 1
Whoever buys Bradford I hope they introduce a new livery of Blue & Cream I agree with that. Really would like transdev to buy Bradford. Makes total sense. Can have a blue and cream style livery aswell! |
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Jun 13, 2019 18:14:54 GMT 1
They aren’t selling it depot by depot, they are selling the whole UK operation, probably to a group of investors that at the moment nobody has never heard of.
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Post by jack97 on Jun 13, 2019 18:55:00 GMT 1
They aren’t selling it depot by depot, they are selling the whole UK operation, probably to a group of investors that at the moment nobody has never heard of. Yes but if it doesn't sell then there will be no other option but to sell off depot by depot. We are allowed to speculate or put what you would like to happen! |
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deerfold
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Post by deerfold on Jun 13, 2019 20:18:44 GMT 1
The first option does not apply.Deutsche Bahn having announced, before First did, of the sale of Arriva in the UK. Didn't it? No They're selling the entirety of Arriva to an investor or a group of investors. That wouldn't stop Arriva making an acquisition. |
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kendall17
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Post by kendall17 on Jun 13, 2019 20:24:45 GMT 1
They aren’t selling it depot by depot, they are selling the whole UK operation, probably to a group of investors that at the moment nobody has never heard of. All this "speculation" (living in dreamland) & very little will change. It'll be a consortium/fund which purchases it & they'll be the ones who decide to sell less profitable areas. Think the majority of this thread belongs in the "fantasy" section of the forum |
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kendall17
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Post by kendall17 on Jun 13, 2019 20:26:18 GMT 1
I haven't seen anything about First Bus being split up beyond the sales that have gone through thus far. They'll be pushing to sell First Bus UK as a whole first. I very much doubt they would sell as a whole. They will have to split it. Bring back Yorkshire rider! Why? Sell a multimillion pound profit making group of businesses as a whole, or go through with selling every area individually & possibly getting stuck with the loss makers? |
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Post by stevieinselby on Jun 13, 2019 22:37:26 GMT 1
Whoever buys Bradford I hope they introduce a new livery of Blue & Cream TLC?  |
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Post by nic on Jun 14, 2019 7:31:33 GMT 1
They aren’t selling it depot by depot, they are selling the whole UK operation, probably to a group of investors that at the moment nobody has never heard of. All this "speculation" (living in dreamland) & very little will change. It'll be a consortium/fund which purchases it & they'll be the ones who decide to sell less profitable areas. Think the majority of this thread belongs in the "fantasy" section of the forum As stated above for both Arriva & First - they may be sold as whole and therefore we will see very little difference or impact. However investment companies are not the nicest of people and would easily strip the profits, assets and cash reserves to make them profitable before suddenly declaring the business they invested in as "not profitable" and putting the businesses into Administration at worst case or selling it off. So maybe yes - for a few years we will see no change at all - however once they've been and raided the bank the businesses will be sold off. And therefore that makes this thread perfectly valid. |
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jc
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Post by jc on Jun 14, 2019 10:17:23 GMT 1
All this "speculation" (living in dreamland) & very little will change. It'll be a consortium/fund which purchases it & they'll be the ones who decide to sell less profitable areas. Think the majority of this thread belongs in the "fantasy" section of the forum As stated above for both Arriva & First - they may be sold as whole and therefore we will see very little difference or impact. However investment companies are not the nicest of people and would easily strip the profits, assets and cash reserves to make them profitable before suddenly declaring the business they invested in as "not profitable" and putting the businesses into Administration at worst case or selling it off. So maybe yes - for a few years we will see no change at all - however once they've been and raided the bank the businesses will be sold off. And therefore that makes this thread perfectly valid. If the investment companies don't have a good understanding of the UK bus market and are otherwise obsessed with the accounts, I can imagine the likes of Stagecoach doing very well out of this without spending a penny on business acquisition. I think LAs should get first refusal on buying operators particularly if government legislation is implemented to streamline contracting. |
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Post by Tom on Jun 20, 2019 10:02:33 GMT 1
www.theguardian.com/business/2019/may/30/firstgroup-to-sell-greyhound-as-it-bows-to-activist-investors With this news in mind what do we think will happen to the operations here in West Yorkshire, which cover 1 large city & 3 large towns. Could it be split into 3/4 different operations or be sold as one large? Who do we think could buy it? Here is the list of options - Arriva - Could potentially buy it. In my opinion i hope they don't. Apart from the 110 and the latest investment on the Garforth/Kippax corridor the mess they've made in North Kirklees is more then enough evidence to suggest they'd make an absolute mess of some of the towns such as Huddersfield, Halifax and possibly Bradford. They would however gain a strong foothold in Leeds, giving them full coverage of Leeds area since First don't go anywhere near either the Gildersome or Rothwell corridors. Go Ahead Group - Very plausible company that could be very much interested in the West Yorkshire operations. What they do is very simple yet very effective in branding routes etc if you look at Go Ahead operations - Oxford Bus Company, Go North East, Brighton & Hove. Stagecoach Group - Again just like the above very plausible. They have a large operation in South Yorkshire - could they make it work in West Yorkshire too? Transdev - would make them pretty dominant in the Yorkshire and Lancashire area. This acquisition would however be huge for such a little company as they'd be acquiring a fleet size alone 3 fold of their own. They'd go up to 1,200 buses overnight. First West Yorkshire becomes a Municipal Bus Company - there are some very successful council ran bus companies out there. Lothian, the largest and most obvious, Cardiff Bus, Nottingham City Transport & Reading buses. All of which i would call successful. Could very well be an option. Is there any latest news on the article above? I know they were expected to meet on the 10th. But cannot find any news relating to that meeting. Seems very unlikely that Arriva would buy it, but there again, stranger things have happened. If they did though, it might cause issue for them given they were already under fire when they were awarded the Northern franchise since they'd be dominating a large portion of transport across the north, buying some or all of First's operation would add to that. Can't see it becoming a municipal bus company seeing as though most municipals are being sold rather than created. I've seen some people suggest they might be sold city by city or depot by depot. That seems more plausible, however, operationally at least, FWY is based out of Hunslet Park, and all operate under the same limited company, so whether a straight sale of the entire operation might be easier, who knows. Truth is, we can all speculate, but until such plans are announced either by First or by other operators taking over, we won't know for certain. |
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Post by Bradford Traveller on Oct 3, 2019 22:43:40 GMT 1
From Telegraph & Argus A report, set to go before West Yorkshire Combined Authority (WYCA) members next week is set to recommend that £200,000 of public money is spent to “assist with the development of options for future bus services” in the region. It comes following news earlier this year that First Bus Yorkshire, which runs 70 per cent of West Yorkshire’s bus services, was up for sale. The report adds that WYCA should explore options arising from the sale, including “participating in the sale”. It also mentioned Arriva, which runs a further 18 per cent of the region’s bus services, and is also up for sale by its parent company. www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/17944800.public-funds-used-assist-bus-company-sale/ |
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Post by guyarab on Oct 8, 2019 14:16:45 GMT 1
I have been told that a Morley councillor says (on Facebook) that the West Yorkshire Combined Authority is set to buy First and Arriva (presumably the West Yorkshire parts of these companies).
My statement is unconfirmed.
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Post by mk2mcw on Oct 8, 2019 16:16:04 GMT 1
I have been told that a Morley councillor says (on Facebook) that the West Yorkshire Combined Authority is set to buy First and Arriva (presumably the West Yorkshire parts of these companies). My statement is unconfirmed. I would have thought the whole first bus network would be sold to a consortium of investors rather than cherry picked also didn't the government ban councils from setting up new bus companies? |
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