BG12
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209
Feb 7, 2019 15:54:42 GMT 1
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Post by BG12 on Feb 7, 2019 15:54:42 GMT 1
Im surprised and disappointed they haven’t put anything in to replace the Birstall - Gildersome Drighlington section of this route. They have replaced the section which hardly anyone used Birstall-Hecky. Which is pure madness.
I also cannot see how they think cutting off Batley on the 229 is a good idea either as thats why it was busier than the X29 because it went to batley and got a lot of custom from Bradford road.
I don’t think many people know about all the changes that are happening either, it seems to be a bit ‘cloak and dagger’ like if it changes before people notice and kick up a stink, then they don’t have to do anything.
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Post by dennisthemenace504 on Feb 7, 2019 16:08:59 GMT 1
Im surprised and disappointed they haven’t put anything in to replace the Birstall - Gildersome Drighlington section of this route. They have replaced the section which hardly anyone used Birstall-Hecky. Which is pure madness. I also cannot see how they think cutting off Batley on the 229 is a good idea either as thats why it was busier than the X29 because it went to batley and got a lot of custom from Bradford road. I don’t think many people know about all the changes that are happening either, it seems to be a bit ‘cloak and dagger’ like if it changes before people notice and kick up a stink, then they don’t have to do anything. 1) It's not been cloak and dagger, they DID announce where they were holding roadshows around Sept/October last year in places like Huddersfield, Cleckheaton, Batley, Dewsbury Bus stations, Heckmondwike around the Hub or in Morrisons at various times, but mostly at Peak Times, if passengers don't go and find out what they were proposing back then, that's their problem. 2) I used to drive 209, and after the Peak Time one, the rest weren't very busy, and if a tendered service isn't carrying the average amount of passengers, the subsidy will get pulled. 3) Passengers from Heckmondwike ASKED for a quicker service to Leeds without going via Batley or Cleckheaton on one bus, so, they've done it. 4) Major changes are never welcomed by passengers, but, they need to be done due to changing lifestyle habits
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Feb 7, 2019 18:20:51 GMT 1
Customers never know about changes as the vocal ones who will complain are too busy in their own world to notice any information.
There is always a massive amount of emphasis on a few people who used to make an unusual journey between two places that no longer have that link. I read about someone who travels Mirfield to Bradford, hardly a major corridor.
The local MP has already spoken negatively in the house about the changes. They are also being called cuts despite the fact that the PVR looks to be the same and demanded that bus services are renationalised.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 21:30:09 GMT 1
Customers never know about changes as the vocal ones who will complain are too busy in their own world to notice any information. There is always a massive amount of emphasis on a few people who used to make an unusual journey between two places that no longer have that link. I read about someone who travels Mirfield to Bradford, hardly a major corridor. The local MP has already spoken negatively in the house about the changes. They are also being called cuts despite the fact that the PVR looks to be the same and demanded that bus services are renationalised. Standard Labour response. Nationalise everything then &^%$ it up even more
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A1YBG
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METRO Here to get you there. Arriva Buses Here to get you there. Arriva need to get original slogans
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Post by A1YBG on Feb 8, 2019 0:32:20 GMT 1
We sent an email to arriva asking to give us reasons for the changes and here is the response.
Your comments were passed on to the planning manager who has informed me that the 229 service only offers a more direct link to Leeds for Heckmondwike and points out towards Huddersfield (e.g. Roberttown, Bradley). For those end to end journeys it saves around 12 to 14 minutes. Birstall and Gildersome benefit from an increased frequency, which gives them a more standard, easier to understand 15 minute frequency to Leeds. Whilst this acts as a replacement for 209 and X29 at certain times of day, one standard route with a higher frequency should be a much more attractive proposition to new and many existing users in Birstall and Gildersome and will hopefully deliver passenger growth in those areas, which will reduce congestion towards Leeds for these areas without rail links. It also provides a more frequent service to Birstall Retail Park, which customers raised as somewhere where links should be improved. Revisions to the 281 also provide direct daytime links to the retail park from Dewsbury, Batley and Howden Clough. The 281 also retains a link to the park from Bradford Road in Batley, albeit via a slower route than 229. The basic idea with this change is to focus investment in a number of key ‘main-line’ routes, as these are our most commercially viable services that have historically shown to be responsive to changes designed to deliver passenger growth. This is designed to develop a ‘hub and spoke’ model, where local services feed in to main line services at bus stations and hubs, with the mainline services designed to provide fast links into Leeds at roughly 15 minute frequencies. As part of this model, we are classing the key mainline services to be 202/203, 229, 254/255 and 268, with 200/201 providing a slightly less direct link to other areas around Heckmondwike and 15 minutes service from Morley to Leeds. The focus with 200/201 has been to make them more simple that now (less mainline Leeds service number and routes, making them easier to understand in Morley and into Leeds) and make them complementary to 202/203 between White Rose Centre and Leeds. The timetable there has been revised to improve spacing between buses on Dewsbury Road, which has required an extra bus to be added to the cycle and will avoid buses from White Rose Centre towards Leeds being timetable to be running together as they do now. In some cases 200 and 201 have also picked up some of the deviations in 229 (Healey) and 255 (Gomersal) to allow that key set of ‘mainline services’ to focus more on the main roads to deliver end to end journey time savings.
The core mainline services delivering direct routes with relatively quick end to end journeys then become:
229 Heckmondwike to Leeds More direct end to end due to these changes, also upgraded to every 15 minutes
229 Birstall/Gildersome to Leeds Increased to every 15 minutes, one core mainline service number
254/255 Cleckheaton to Leeds Revised timetable and every 15 minutes direct to Leeds
202/203 Dewsbury to Leeds Every 15 minutes, an extra bus has been added to the service to improve timetable spacing and reliability at peak times
268 Cross Kirklees service linking the main bus stations at Dewsbury, Cleckheaton and Heckmondwike every 15 minutes
The new 229 will therefore give Heckmondwike and Birstall the equivalent of a 254/255 with a relatively frequent, direct route into Leeds, all day. This is a major service investment, but all these areas are away from the rail network and we know they are popular residential bases for commuters in Leeds. Whilst there is currently the X29 at the moment, this has a very limited timetable and to make the hub-and-spoke model effective we need fast end to end journeys all day. In some respects, this change is a move to an all-day service more like the X29. But we are doing it by speeding up the 229, rather than having two services. We did consider having 2x 229 (current route) and 2x X29 services per hour forming a 15 minute between Birstall and Leeds, but this required an extra bus in the cycle versus the option we have gone with .and also meant that the end to end service was less attractive in Heckmondwike centre, as in effect two buses left together every 30 minutes to re-join 15 minutes apart at Birstall. This also meant two different services, which made things more complex in Birstall and Gildersome with two service numbers versus one, which is more complicated to explain to new users when they see no tangible difference between the two (operational experience shows that the X29 using the M621 can actually take longer than the 229 on the A62!). Also, it didn’t sit correctly with the basis for a hub-and-spoke connection to a fast, relatively frequent service to Leeds in Heckmondwike Hub. These factors combined all made a 229/X29 combination service seem less attractive as a business decision (especially as it required an extra bus to be invested), plus the current section of the 221 between Heckmondwike and Batley is not commercially viable for us, so we already had considered options to cover Healey with the replacement for service 221. Of the sections of network we consider commercial, this just leaves the section of Bradford Road in Batley unserved by a direct bus to Leeds. For the cost of an extra bus and the other drawbacks above that we feel that two service variations presented along the route, an objective decision has been taken that the revenue taken on that section of Bradford Road for direct journeys to Leeds, Huddersfield etc wouldn’t cover the cost of the extra bus and offset the other drawbacks we think there are. Whilst we do completely accept that some customers there will lose out because of the changes, the revisions to 281 will cover off some links to the Retail Park and other customers will have to change buses at either Birstall (best place for Leeds) or Dewsbury (for Huddersfield). In terms of consultation, we generally work on the basis that we get customer ideas before we start designing changes and then implement our proposed commercial network. The consultation process is important and is paired with a similar one with drivers and gives us ideas of what people would like to see. Previous exercises have given us some good ideas that we have taken forward and might not have been considered otherwise. Once we have designed a commercial network, if there are sections of route that are then uncovered, we work with METRO or other local authorities to help them design a subsidised replacement, which they then usually offer on ‘tender’ to all operators. This is what has happened in this case for new services 251, 261 and 271. The current financial climate is resulting in METRO having less funding available to support these ‘socially necessary’ services and operators generally being less able to sustain sections of network that generate poor returns on investment. Our service change/network review process generally doesn’t include a second consultation stage before we implement changes, as they have generally been worked up on the basis of commercial viability and need to be implemented as soon as possible to realise our business targets. The final design is therefore usually a solution that is cost effective to operate and brings the optimum rate of return for each bus invested. Sometimes these decisions mean that whilst we will project to lose revenue, if the cost saving is likely to be much higher, an objective decision needs to be taken weighing up the pros and cons of each option.
Thank you for taking the time to contact us and allowing us to comment.
Sent from my SM-G960F using proboards
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209
Feb 8, 2019 7:14:34 GMT 1
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Post by stephen01 on Feb 8, 2019 7:14:34 GMT 1
I for one am not happy with the new timetable for the 281 as i'll have no quick way of getting to work now and with both the 281 and 283 as well as the 229 no longer serving Batley Bus Station (Batley at all for the 229) I'll have to walk home which isn't ideal after a 10 hr shift. It also means i'm going to have to possibly look at changing/reducing my hours for travel as the bus is cheaper than taxi for me
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A1YBG
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METRO Here to get you there. Arriva Buses Here to get you there. Arriva need to get original slogans
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Post by A1YBG on Feb 8, 2019 8:37:44 GMT 1
I for one am not happy with the new timetable for the 281 as i'll have no quick way of getting to work now and with both the 281 and 283 as well as the 229 no longer serving Batley Bus Station (Batley at all for the 229) I'll have to walk home which isn't ideal after a 10 hr shift. It also means i'm going to have to possibly look at changing/reducing my hours for travel as the bus is cheaper than taxi for me Have u sent a complain to arriva? People I've spoken have complained to me and nothing to arriva and they will assume everyone is ok with this Sent from my SM-G960F using proboards
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209
Feb 8, 2019 12:48:51 GMT 1
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Post by kommie123 on Feb 8, 2019 12:48:51 GMT 1
But there was a demand for an off peak express service to Brighouse which I can guarantee will carry noone?
I also don't understand why the 200 is now half hourly to Cleckheaton? Why not a 200a that went from Hilltop to Heckmondwike via 222 route? That would have saved a bus?
Otherwise I get the other changes, well thought out but when Gomersal residents realise they have lost their service to Bradford, that will be interesting. It was decently used,obviously not used enough.
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Post by dennisthemenace504 on Feb 8, 2019 15:46:49 GMT 1
But there was a demand for an off peak express service to Brighouse which I can guarantee will carry noone? I also don't understand why the 200 is now half hourly to Cleckheaton? Why not a 200a that went from Hilltop to Heckmondwike via 222 route? That would have saved a bus? Otherwise I get the other changes, well thought out but when Gomersal residents realise they have lost their service to Bradford, that will be interesting. It was decently used,obviously not used enough. Gomersal residents have already found out, that they've lost their Bradford service and are up in arms about it. So, since the 1970's, Gomersal now will have no service to Bradford, when I was a lad, it used to be 260 Huddersfield- Bradford that came up Spen Lane, and 259 Bradford would come up from Six Lane Ends to Bradford, then 260 switched places with 253, so then it used to be Mirfield - Bradford up Spen Lane as well as 259 coming through Hill Top, 253 over the years then got extended to Dewsbury and then Wakefield, then came 250/253/257/258 as well as 259, then 250/257/258 were dropped to put it back to just 253 & 259, then 259 got dropped, and now 253 is going. Now, nobody whinged when 260 stopped going through Gomersal to Huddersfield, we just got on with it, with a change of bus in Cleck.
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Feb 8, 2019 17:12:26 GMT 1
Post by westyorkshirebus on Feb 8, 2019 17:12:26 GMT 1
But there was a demand for an off peak express service to Brighouse which I can guarantee will carry noone? I also don't understand why the 200 is now half hourly to Cleckheaton? Why not a 200a that went from Hilltop to Heckmondwike via 222 route? That would have saved a bus? Otherwise I get the other changes, well thought out but when Gomersal residents realise they have lost their service to Bradford, that will be interesting. It was decently used,obviously not used enough. As they’ve explained they want to simplify the network with core services running at least every 30 mins, not the current situation where there are many route numbers going slightly different ways. They obviously want to grow the 200 so have made it half hourly. The problem with the 222 is that realistically when it left Heckmondwike there would be nobody on it going any further than Gomersal, as there is a faster more frequent service going to Birstall, Leeds etc. I’m guessing the 228 to Brighouse is just filling a spare bit of time in the diagram, rather than the bus just sitting in Cleckheaton.
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209
Feb 8, 2019 20:08:02 GMT 1
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Post by stephen01 on Feb 8, 2019 20:08:02 GMT 1
I for one am not happy with the new timetable for the 281 as i'll have no quick way of getting to work now and with both the 281 and 283 as well as the 229 no longer serving Batley Bus Station (Batley at all for the 229) I'll have to walk home which isn't ideal after a 10 hr shift. It also means i'm going to have to possibly look at changing/reducing my hours for travel as the bus is cheaper than taxi for me Have u sent a complain to arriva? People I've spoken have complained to me and nothing to arriva and they will assume everyone is ok with this Sent from my SM-G960F using proboards Not as yet but i'm going to do
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A1YBG
Forum Member
METRO Here to get you there. Arriva Buses Here to get you there. Arriva need to get original slogans
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Post by A1YBG on Feb 8, 2019 20:39:56 GMT 1
Recieved an email today from Tracy Brabam our MP
Thank you for getting in touch and no need to apologise – your frustration is completely understandable You are one of several people to contact me about the 229 and I raised this with Arriva in the meeting last week. I have since forwarded much of this to the bus company to consider further in the hope they will rethink some of route changes. I have also invited Arriva to a public meeting to give those affected by the changes the opportunity to raise their concerns directly, and I’d be delighted if you could join us should they agree. Thanks again for getting in touch and I’ll keep you informed. Regards,

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209
Feb 8, 2019 20:47:39 GMT 1
Post by westyorkshirebus on Feb 8, 2019 20:47:39 GMT 1
Do either of you have an idea on how they can still meet your travel needs, without the solution being leave everything as it is forever? What journeys are you wanting to make?
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Feb 8, 2019 21:50:15 GMT 1
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Post by stephen01 on Feb 8, 2019 21:50:15 GMT 1
Do either of you have an idea on how they can still meet your travel needs, without the solution being leave everything as it is forever? What journeys are you wanting to make? well i work out at Wakefield 41 always for an 08:00 stary so my main routes for at least the two years have been 281- Dewsbury then 268A across to Wakefield Bus Station from Dewsbury and the sticking to the 212 from Wakefield back to Batley so now when the new timetable start i can only use the first 281 of the day to Batley which i've had it miss completely and then get the first 212 which in past experience has run late or again missed completely.
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