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Post by yt776 on Sept 28, 2017 20:37:25 GMT 1
Hi, Arriva would be wise to cancel their loss making 402/403 Leeds to Selby service. My suggestion is a separate hourly 403 service from Sherburn in Elmet to Selby only. South Milford (in Sherburn) and Micklefield already have fast reliable all day train services to Leeds, Garforth and Selby. The 175 still retains 2 hourly local links from Micklefield to Garforth. The rest of route 402/3 from Selby to Leeds is duplicated west of Garforth by service 166 every 30 mins. Anyone agree? It always busy 403 to Selby whenever I have caught it |
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Post by stevieinselby on Sept 28, 2017 21:19:19 GMT 1
How do you know it's making a loss? I'm sure Arriva wouldn't continue to run it with double-deckers if there wasn't demand for it. Remember that until not long ago, it was every 30 minutes to Sherburn, and before that every 30 minutes to Leeds. OK, so maybe it's not taking as much as it once was, but it is well enough used to keep running.
While there is an hourly train from South Milford to Leeds, that isn't great for a lot of people in Sherburn, who may be up to a mile away from the station, whereas the bus gets a lot closer, and people who may not be able to or want to walk far will prefer the bus – and it's a crappy stopping train, often a Pacer, that takes 25–30 minutes to get to Leeds. Yes, that's quicker than the bus, but if you have to allow 20 minutes to walk to the station then the bus has the advantage. Likewise, there are parts of Micklefield that are further from the station. And for people travelling on free passes from Sherburn/South Milford, the bus saves them £6.10 return by being free! There's plenty of reasons to continue running the service.
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Post by scania60065 on Sept 29, 2017 6:57:22 GMT 1
Hi, Arriva would be wise to cancel their loss making 402/403 Leeds to Selby service. My suggestion is a separate hourly 403 service from Sherburn in Elmet to Selby only. South Milford (in Sherburn) and Micklefield already have fast reliable all day train services to Leeds, Garforth and Selby. The 175 still retains 2 hourly local links from Micklefield to Garforth. The rest of route 402/3 from Selby to Leeds is duplicated west of Garforth by service 166 every 30 mins. Anyone agree? What a stupid post It's alot cheaper than the train and when services are regularly getting cut you asking for more :S |
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Post by kommie123 on Sept 29, 2017 12:10:36 GMT 1
Not a stupid post when it would save Arriva money and that money can be used to bolster services that are actually used. The 402 is partly subsidised so it isn't making money.
Sherburn is served well by other services.
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Post by deerfold on Sept 29, 2017 12:27:34 GMT 1
Not a stupid post when it would save Arriva money and that money can be used to bolster services that are actually used. The 402 is partly subsidised so it isn't making money. Sherburn is served well by other services. If the 402 is partly subsidised then Arriva are being paid to run it. So if they gave it up they wouldn't receive this money. I'm struggling to see how giving it up would help any other routes. |
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Post by dennisthemenace504 on Sept 29, 2017 14:40:34 GMT 1
Not a stupid post when it would save Arriva money and that money can be used to bolster services that are actually used. The 402 is partly subsidised so it isn't making money. Sherburn is served well by other services. If any subsidised service, was stopped, there's no guarantee, that the money that was used to subsidise it, would be available for other services. If, a big operator, like Arriva, Transdev or First, need a subsidy to run a route, then clearly is not that viable to be run without it. Possibly, the next time 402/3 come up for tender etc, the passengers may not be happy if, let's say, it drops to every 2 hours or something similar. |
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Post by stevieinselby on Sept 29, 2017 17:00:43 GMT 1
I'm pretty sure the 403 is no longer subsidised, following the most recent round of NYCC cuts. Arriva decided to continue running the affected journeys commercially
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Post by Arriva Wakefield on Sept 29, 2017 18:49:14 GMT 1
How do you know it's making a loss? I'm sure Arriva wouldn't continue to run it with double-deckers if there wasn't demand for it. Remember that until not long ago, it was every 30 minutes to Sherburn, and before that every 30 minutes to Leeds. OK, so maybe it's not taking as much as it once was, but it is well enough used to keep running. While there is an hourly train from South Milford to Leeds, that isn't great for a lot of people in Sherburn, who may be up to a mile away from the station, whereas the bus gets a lot closer, and people who may not be able to or want to walk far will prefer the bus – and it's a crappy stopping train, often a Pacer, that takes 25–30 minutes to get to Leeds. Yes, that's quicker than the bus, but if you have to allow 20 minutes to walk to the station then the bus has the advantage. Likewise, there are parts of Micklefield that are further from the station. And for people travelling on free passes from Sherburn/South Milford, the bus saves them £6.10 return by being free! There's plenty of reasons to continue running the service. There must be a reason why Selby still uses deckers on the 401/403 workings, and I’m sure it’s not for heavy loadings on the 401, unless miraculously every working picks school kids up in either the morning or evening. The 1600 departure certainly carries as it arrives off the 400, drops around 30 kids off, and still leaves with a very healthy load of kids travelling through onto the 403. |
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Post by kommie123 on Sept 29, 2017 23:00:37 GMT 1
The 256 from Brighouse to Cleckheaton was hugely loss making and was always a double decker. My suggestion was to only curtail the 403 anyway. West of Garforth the entire route is duplicated by the half hourly 166.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Sept 29, 2017 23:06:58 GMT 1
Unless you are an Arriva shareholder, why would you want a bus service axed?
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Post by jdodger08 on Sept 30, 2017 3:09:01 GMT 1
In fairness, I think the service could be ran limited stop to compete with the train. It pretty much runs the same route anyways.
If it was limited stop after Micklefield they could run it to a faster time. Shave some minutes off to beat the train.
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Post by dennisthemenace504 on Sept 30, 2017 6:44:53 GMT 1
The 256 from Brighouse to Cleckheaton was hugely loss making and was always a double decker. My suggestion was to only curtail the 403 anyway. West of Garforth the entire route is duplicated by the half hourly 166. The 256, when it ran during the day as well, about 90% of the route, was subsidised. When Metro & Arriva (think it was 2013), decided to just run it during peak times, it saved Metro a big subsidy, but, the residents of Hunsworth complained, cos, they were losing their Brighouse bus, and a 200 signature petition went in. Before the 259 was announced, ML3 was going to be scrapped, and the 255 Scholes service, was going to be extended to Brighouse from Scholes, via the 256 route, with subsidy, just from Scholes to Brighouse and numbered 257. But, because of that 'alleged' 200 passengers that used the Brighouse bus, it was decided to withdraw both ML 2 & 3, join them up with a one way loop through Hunsworth and East Bierley and then to Brighouse as 259. Now, I've travelled on the 259, as a passenger, and not one of those 200 signatures from Hunsworth use it to Brighouse, regularly. |
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Post by kommie123 on Sept 30, 2017 9:52:31 GMT 1
Unless you are an Arriva shareholder, why would you want a bus service axed? No. It's called trying to run things more efficiently. What's wrong being a shareholder. |
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Post by kommie123 on Sept 30, 2017 9:58:24 GMT 1
The 256 from Brighouse to Cleckheaton was hugely loss making and was always a double decker. My suggestion was to only curtail the 403 anyway. West of Garforth the entire route is duplicated by the half hourly 166. The 256, when it ran during the day as well, about 90% of the route, was subsidised. When Metro & Arriva (think it was 2013), decided to just run it during peak times, it saved Metro a big subsidy, but, the residents of Hunsworth complained, cos, they were losing their Brighouse bus, and a 200 signature petition went in. Before the 259 was announced, ML3 was going to be scrapped, and the 255 Scholes service, was going to be extended to Brighouse from Scholes, via the 256 route, with subsidy, just from Scholes to Brighouse and numbered 257. But, because of that 'alleged' 200 passengers that used the Brighouse bus, it was decided to withdraw both ML 2 & 3, join them up with a one way loop through Hunsworth and East Bierley and then to Brighouse as 259. Now, I've travelled on the 259, as a passenger, and not one of those 200 signatures from Hunsworth use it to Brighouse, regularly. I agree. I suggested the Scholes to Brighouse link which was agreed until the militants arrived to bully Metro. They should put the 259 on a use it or lose it basis. |
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Sept 30, 2017 19:43:10 GMT 1
Unless you are an Arriva shareholder, why would you want a bus service axed? Arriva now only has 1 shareholder: Deutsche Bahn. |
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Sept 30, 2017 19:44:20 GMT 1
The 256 from Brighouse to Cleckheaton was hugely loss making and was always a double decker. My suggestion was to only curtail the 403 anyway. West of Garforth the entire route is duplicated by the half hourly 166. The 256, when it ran during the day as well, about 90% of the route, was subsidised. When Metro & Arriva (think it was 2013), decided to just run it during peak times, it saved Metro a big subsidy, but, the residents of Hunsworth complained, cos, they were losing their Brighouse bus, and a 200 signature petition went in. Before the 259 was announced, ML3 was going to be scrapped, and the 255 Scholes service, was going to be extended to Brighouse from Scholes, via the 256 route, with subsidy, just from Scholes to Brighouse and numbered 257. But, because of that 'alleged' 200 passengers that used the Brighouse bus, it was decided to withdraw both ML 2 & 3, join them up with a one way loop through Hunsworth and East Bierley and then to Brighouse as 259. Now, I've travelled on the 259, as a passenger, and not one of those 200 signatures from Hunsworth use it to Brighouse, regularly. I rode route 256 as my first local bus on my Bradford trip on the Saturday just after Christmas 2012. |
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Post by kommie123 on Oct 1, 2017 10:14:27 GMT 1
The fact remains that a shorter more localised 402 service would be much more suitable. It's a 27 min journey end to end so only 1 bus required (2 in peaks). The spare bus could be used to provide a basic service via Cawood off peak.
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Post by SCH117X on Oct 1, 2017 13:58:41 GMT 1
As its commercially run why would Arriva be still be running it? A bus may have little custom in one direction but not on the return of the working; some workings may be marginal but its quite likely the passengers make a return on a working that is highly profitable, axe the marginal services and the profitable ones potentially become marginal. Crazy thread, ought to be locked IMO.
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Post by peteleeds on Oct 1, 2017 16:19:09 GMT 1
My mum often uses this service to visit my sister in sherburn. (Mum lives in otley and doesn't drive). She often gets the last bus back to Leeds at 18.30 and is surprised their isn't a later one as it's well patronized.
Sherburn has recently suffered with the loss of utopia. Last thing it needs is to lose its direct bus to Leeds too.
Other option is to send it via the M1 after garforth to Leeds to make it faster as that part of the route is duplicated .
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Post by kommie123 on Oct 1, 2017 17:18:31 GMT 1
As its commercially run why would Arriva be still be running it? A bus may have little custom in one direction but not on the return of the working; some workings may be marginal but its quite likely the passengers make a return on a working that is highly profitable, axe the marginal services and the profitable ones potentially become marginal. Crazy thread, ought to be locked IMO. Because you personally don't agree, doesn't call for everyone to be silenced now does it? |
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Post by kommie123 on Oct 1, 2017 17:22:23 GMT 1
My mum often uses this service to visit my sister in sherburn. (Mum lives in otley and doesn't drive). She often gets the last bus back to Leeds at 18.30 and is surprised their isn't a later one as it's well patronized. Sherburn has recently suffered with the loss of utopia. Last thing it needs is to lose its direct bus to Leeds too. Other option is to send it via the M1 after garforth to Leeds to make it faster as that part of the route is duplicated . All those areas have a fast service to Leeds. It's the train. South Milford train station is in Sherburn. Sherburn is also in North Yorkshire. It's nearest town is Selby. I've seen this service many times half empty. One idea could be extending the 19 to Micklefield. |
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Post by davopazza on Oct 1, 2017 17:50:50 GMT 1
My mum often uses this service to visit my sister in sherburn. (Mum lives in otley and doesn't drive). She often gets the last bus back to Leeds at 18.30 and is surprised their isn't a later one as it's well patronized. Sherburn has recently suffered with the loss of utopia. Last thing it needs is to lose its direct bus to Leeds too. Other option is to send it via the M1 after garforth to Leeds to make it faster as that part of the route is duplicated . All those areas have a fast service to Leeds. It's the train. South Milford train station is in Sherburn. Sherburn is also in North Yorkshire. It's nearest town is Selby. I've seen this service many times half empty. One idea could be extending the 19 to Micklefield. I guess the service doesn't get half full then. |
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Post by mk2mcw on Oct 1, 2017 18:07:38 GMT 1
My mum often uses this service to visit my sister in sherburn. (Mum lives in otley and doesn't drive). She often gets the last bus back to Leeds at 18.30 and is surprised their isn't a later one as it's well patronized. Sherburn has recently suffered with the loss of utopia. Last thing it needs is to lose its direct bus to Leeds too. Other option is to send it via the M1 after garforth to Leeds to make it faster as that part of the route is duplicated . All those areas have a fast service to Leeds. It's the train. South Milford train station is in Sherburn. Sherburn is also in North Yorkshire. It's nearest town is Selby. I've seen this service many times half empty. One idea could be extending the 19 to Micklefield. the 19 is already extending to Yeadon that would be at least a 2 hour plus journey each way if extended to micklefield |
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Post by SCH117X on Oct 1, 2017 18:17:08 GMT 1
[quote author=" kommie123" source="/post/94983/thread" timestamp="1506874711Because you personally don't agree, doesn't call for everyone to be silenced now does it? [/quote] No but there is no "Cancellation" and no evidence other than what you think of "loss making" ; presumably you are hoping to get a job with North Yorkshire County Councils public transport team with the logic that you have. |
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Post by peteleeds on Oct 1, 2017 18:22:58 GMT 1
My mum often uses this service to visit my sister in sherburn. (Mum lives in otley and doesn't drive). She often gets the last bus back to Leeds at 18.30 and is surprised their isn't a later one as it's well patronized. Sherburn has recently suffered with the loss of utopia. Last thing it needs is to lose its direct bus to Leeds too. Other option is to send it via the M1 after garforth to Leeds to make it faster as that part of the route is duplicated . All those areas have a fast service to Leeds. It's the train. South Milford train station is in Sherburn. Sherburn is also in North Yorkshire. It's nearest town is Selby. I've seen this service many times half empty. One idea could be extending the 19 to Micklefield. It's a 25 minute walk from sherburn cross roads to South Milford station so the bus is a lot more convenient for most people in sherburn |
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