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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2017 9:12:55 GMT 1
Having just moved to Scotland I now have the delights of Abellio ScotRail, while in general it's a marmite situation with them the one area they certainly seem to have got right is the refurb of their rolling stock.
if you stood a Northern 158 refurb next to an Abellio Scotrail one you'd he astonished at the differences, while the Norther example has been done on a penny pinching extreme the ScotRail ones have decent seats, wifi, passenger information systems that actually tell you information not just the last stop and USB charging points at seats.
what surprises me the most is that Arriva did a cracking job on the Welsh trains they yet in Yorkshire they really have lost the plot
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Post by northerner on Jul 30, 2017 10:49:50 GMT 1
The Northern refurbs aren't complete yet and will receive Wifi and charging sockets at some point. The information screens will also be upgraded to show station calls. I suspect the focus is on getting units compliant without adding to the current shortages by having trains out of traffic longer than necessary
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Post by biroguy on Jul 31, 2017 8:47:54 GMT 1
I think many of us are disappointed at just how banal the Arriva Northern refurbs are, I sincerely hope the spec is higher on the new rolling stock. After all the promises made last year when they took over, the actual passenger experience has gone down hill with a collapse in staff morale, strikes, unreliability, shorter trains. Other than put the fares up, Arriva have delivered nothing.
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Post by northerner on Jul 31, 2017 20:38:14 GMT 1
What trains have got shorter? Northern's fleet has increased with the introduction of further 319s which in turn has allowed other services to receive an increase in capacity. The strikes would have happened irrespective of the operator as the issue lies with the DfT and the spec of the franchise. And has reliability really decreased? Looking at the PPM figures it is roughly the same as old Northern, with the biggest incident affecting services so far this year being the Manchester attack - again something which would have occurred whoever had control of the franchise. I agree the refurbs could be better, but the latest Passenger Focus survey shows Northern's satisfaction has increased, so I don't think the passenger experience has gone downhill
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Jul 31, 2017 22:30:24 GMT 1
I haven't been on a Refurbished train yet but I wouldn't be surprised if they looked a bit basic, there hasn't been a comprehensive refurbishment on any train in this area since the Arriva Trains Northern era when the 144/153/156 etc were done.
The Stagecoach refurbished 158s on EMT and SWT are the standard they should be looking at.
Also I can understand why they don't want to repaint and brand old stock, but are they ever going to fully use their new brand on their stations. There are still loads of items on stations branded with a white sticker blocking out the old logo, over a year later.
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Post by adam on Aug 1, 2017 7:42:00 GMT 1
Once cascades trains come from other operators to give a bit of slack in train availability then the refurbishments will step up. The refurbishments have multiple stages the 1st been the PRM modifications. Wifi and USB points will be in another stage.
Now the branding has been finalised (hopefully) then you can probably expect the logo to appear more wide spread.
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Post by djfrankieb on Aug 5, 2017 10:10:51 GMT 1
As with transpennine, the company will be a bit reluctant to spend, large amount of money, on stock, that next year will be in the throws of being replaced, with new trains,
the only stumbling block is are all the new trains to northern and transpennine going to be bimodal as it seams that the promissed electrification of many of britains routes have been scrapped so central government can lavish it on london
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2017 10:37:13 GMT 1
As with transpennine, the company will be a bit reluctant to spend, large amount of money, on stock, that next year will be in the throws of being replaced, with new trains, the only stumbling block is are all the new trains to northern and transpennine going to be bimodal as it seams that the promissed electrification of many of britains routes have been scrapped so central government can lavish it on london The ones being refurbished are the ones they are keeping, not the ones being scrapped! |
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Post by biroguy on Aug 6, 2017 8:00:34 GMT 1
What trains have got shorter? Northern's fleet has increased with the introduction of further 319s which in turn has allowed other services to receive an increase in capacity. The strikes would have happened irrespective of the operator as the issue lies with the DfT and the spec of the franchise. And has reliability really decreased? Looking at the PPM figures it is roughly the same as old Northern, with the biggest incident affecting services so far this year being the Manchester attack - again something which would have occurred whoever had control of the franchise. I agree the refurbs could be better, but the latest Passenger Focus survey shows Northern's satisfaction has increased, so I don't think the passenger experience has gone downhill My judgement is based on personal experience! I use Northern trains all the time and the service has got worse, punctuality has gone down hill and the trains are more often than not shorter. Passenger focus Surveys don`t reflect my personal experience! Hopefully things will pick up soon, I actually had high hopes that Arriva might get it right this time, after all their track record on running trains isn`t that great is it? |
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Post by northerner on Aug 6, 2017 10:37:24 GMT 1
Arriva have a very good record of running trains given their owner is DB. There is an ongoing shortage of units caused by the refurb programme and combined with the age of the fleet it does put a lot of pressure on their limited resources. To be honest I use Northern a lot and can't really notice the difference between Serco/Abellio and Arriva
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Post by biroguy on Aug 6, 2017 20:07:52 GMT 1
Arriva have a very good record of running trains given their owner is DB. There is an ongoing shortage of units caused by the refurb programme and combined with the age of the fleet it does put a lot of pressure on their limited resources. To be honest I use Northern a lot and can't really notice the difference between Serco/Abellio and Arriva My views are based on going to the station and waiting for the train to arrive, the same age profile trains and associated issues were there prior to April 2016. I sat through Alex Hynes glowing and impressive lecture on where Northern was heading under Arriva at the Rail Conference in Manchester last November, so my expectations are high. He has since left the company sadly and will be missed, I then attended a "Northern rail- the Future" meeting in April.My concerns over the refurbs are justified as 70% of northern services will use current or cascaded rolling stock for the next decade at least. 150`s will be running for years on most of our routes along with 158`s. I expected better quality refurbs to be honest. |
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Post by northerner on Aug 6, 2017 22:12:40 GMT 1
Completely agree with you over the current refurbs, but as already mentioned, they aren't the finished product. Given the current capacity and unit availability issues it's more important trains are in service to boost the all important PPM figures. Unfortunately we are still paying the price for a Labour government who 13 years ago let the franchise out on a no-growth basis
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Post by pontecarlo on Aug 18, 2017 13:50:39 GMT 1
Be interesting to see what will be cascaded to be honest as they have a massive total of 103 trains that need replacing in 2 years time!
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Post by northerner on Aug 18, 2017 22:30:00 GMT 1
Northern are due the remainder of the 150/1 fleet along with a handful of 150/2s 156s 158s and 170s.
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Post by Burnside on Aug 19, 2017 19:23:31 GMT 1
Stock changes set to occur over the next couple of years should see classes 142 and 144 withdrawn and scrapped (apart from any that may be saved for preservation) while Class 153's will be taken off lease. Class 321, 322 and 323 units will also be taken out of service.
They will be replaced by Class 150's from GWR with a certain number of 150/1's made into 3 car sets by having 1 vehicle from a 150/2 inserted in the middle plus the two 150/0's are set to be cascaded northwards. In addition a number of Class 156, 158 and 170 units are due to come south from Scotrail. Additional Class 319 EMU's will come into use along with the Class 769 'Flex' units (319's with MTU powerpacks under the floor to allow use off electrified routes), while the 333's will be refurbished with 2 cars per set gaining a 'metro' style interior, plus the new DMU's and EMU's being built by CAF in Spain.
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Post by northerner on Aug 19, 2017 20:46:37 GMT 1
Stock changes set to occur over the next couple of years should see classes 142 and 144 withdrawn and scrapped (apart from any that may be saved for preservation) while Class 153's will be taken off lease. Class 321, 322 and 323 units will also be taken out of service. They will be replaced by Class 150's from GWR with a certain number of 150/1's made into 3 car sets by having 1 vehicle from a 150/2 inserted in the middle plus the two 150/0's are set to be cascaded northwards. In addition a number of Class 156, 158 and 170 units are due to come south from Scotrail. Additional Class 319 EMU's will come into use along with the Class 769 'Flex' units (319's with MTU powerpacks under the floor to allow use off electrified routes), while the 333's will be refurbished with 2 cars per set gaining a 'metro' style interior, plus the new DMU's and EMU's being built by CAF in Spain. Will be interesting to see how the additional units will impact on where units are based, and if additional depots be required |
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