TJ Walsh reductions

[77syk7]

Small independents running Monday-Saturday commercial routes in small areas of the county often seem to receive little attention on this forum - TJ Walsh (The Halifax Bus Company) being a good example.
This week the company has withdrawn their commercial 300 Halifax - Sowerby service which has run without little change to timetable since the late 90s. No mention in the press or any objections etc. They have also reduced the frequency of their longest established route - the 525 to every 15 minutes requiring just 2 buses. The 400 Elland route which was gradually run down - went a few months ago. The contracted twice daily (once on Sat) Norwood Green No. 226 has passed to South Pennine Community Transport this week.
They still have commercial routes 525, 555, 600 & 700 in Halifax plus their tendered 257/8 Brighouse-Elland, 504 (Denholme), 564 Brighouse-Barkiskand, as well as the Elland Circulars E3-E5.
I hope they can survive, as they have given First some competition for over 20 years in Halifax!

[leedsbus]

Does anyone know where their depot is, Flickr tells me it's Brunswick Industrial Estate but I can't find a specific point on streetview.

[andy1]

Actually service 504 Halifax to Denholme is run commercially by the Halifax Bus Co,
Yorkshire Tiger actually won the Tender for this route during the Tendering exercise that took place in 2014 for
commencement in Jan 2015,this is one of the reasons it now excludes Hx bus station.
Rumour as it TJ WALSH are favourites to run the new tendered off peak service to Keighley, extending the existing 504 !

[westyorkshirebus]

Jul 25, 2017 15:51:15 GMT 1 leedsbus said:

Does anyone know where their depot is, Flickr tells me it's Brunswick Industrial Estate but I can't find a specific point on streetview.

If you look on google maps it's quite obvious as you can see loads of little red buses crammed in, just slightly to the north of where you can see loads of yellow buses parked up at First's depot.

[leedsbus]

No that's 17a South Parade, Flickr says it's at Brunswick Industrial Estate.

[westyorkshirebus]

www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/view-details/licence/156935

[Craig]

A very interesting point to pick up about TJW's receding network, I'm glad you brought it up.

For a long time I've wondered quite how Ovenden and Illingworth could support such an intensive bus network. It's the type of thing you saw in the 'golden days' of deregulation that would last for a few years until one company "won". Presumably both companies were able to maintain a decent bottom line given how long the frequent services have existed, at least up until recently. Presumably TJW have a loyal strong customer base which meant they could keep the same timetables for so long, and First kept up competing rather than surrender, as they have a history of doing outside of West Yorks. For example, First's relaunch of their routes a few years ago with the curious choice of red branding only existed for one reason... maybe this was so successful that TJ have had to retract? Or could it just be the economy, some issue with the owners/family, or a more trivial reason? Have First operated at or close to a loss for all these years? Lots of questions but I find it interesting as it goes against everything you normally see in this industry.

[andy1]

Illingworth/Ovenden is top bus operating territory , large intensive estates, council or otherwise and very high bus usage,
more than enough for both operators, i work for First but will try to be objective, for years First were on the back foot in North Halifax for many years TJWs combination of frequent services and cheap fares gave them a strong customer base,but in recent years with the launch of Red Arrow, new buses and the £10 Halifax weekly, massive inroads have being made into this base, comprehensive network coverage is also another factor, i am not for a moment saying TJW isn't carrying anymore, as the 700 service still carry's good loads of people ,(Firsts service provision up Ovenden /Keighley road (522/3) is weaker than Ovenden way /Cousin Lane(521) but an unfortunate side effect of this competition over the years as been the loss of through services to Huddersfield/Bradford and Keighley from North Halifax.

[westyorkshirebus]

The closeness to the town centre of those estates is another one, the 525 Ovenden Way circular used to run about every 6 minutes but only needed 3 buses. It only runs mornings of course, I wonder if concessionary pass rebate has anything to do with it as well as I bet 50% of passengers are pass holders.

You'd expect Mixenden to be good bus territory as well, but First has it mostly to itself and it just has regular buses on it, often to ever changing ever reducing frequencies.

Rather than the 300 & 400 doing badly, I wonder if axing those are basically just so they can maintain their core Ovenden/Illingworth market in ever tough times.

[Deleted]

Could it be because of DDA? I`m guessing the Primos cost more to run than the old breadvans they had before,so with that & losing passengers to First & possibly Tiger the service reductions are not that surprising

Also,another contract they run to add to the list is the Halifax Bank shuttle from Copley to Halifax

[MT]

Jul 25, 2017 20:52:20 GMT 1 andy1 said:

Firsts service provision up Ovenden /Keighley road (522/3) is weaker than Ovenden way /Cousin Lane(521)

Out of interest, what are/were the passenger loadings like on the 520? From my experience of the Illingworth/Ovenden buses, all of First's services frequently seem to have good loadings, and TJ Walsh's appear to have a steady passenger base, but the 520 always seemed empty.

I wonder how the loss of the 300 will affect drivers, if I'm not mistaken TJ Walsh's drivers each kept to individual services.

[77syk7]

This response is great - thanks to all the members of the forum who have contributed to this section.
Time for a few more comments:-
* Thanks to to 'Andy1' for pointing out that the 504 is now commercial and not tendered. However, I wish them well in applying to run the long overdue and forever delayed extension of the 504 to Keighley.
* For those less familiar with Halifax outskirts - most of TJ Walsh's buses seem to be garaged next to that classic real ale pub 'The Three Pigeons' - about 5 mins walk from the Rail Station.
* To complete the list of services above, I forgot to mention the 3 times a day 527 which runs from Halifax to Round Hill, Illingworth.

Now for a challenge - the longer established members of the forum may remember that TJW did indeed run to Mixenden as Route 200 for about 18 months (Sep 1998-Feb 2000) & another route which ran during a similar period was the 100 to Grove Avenue, Ovenden. But where did Route 99 go which ran for an even shorter period (from Sep 1999 - April 2000)?

[andy1]

Was it the West End/Highroad Well circular?

[77syk7]

Spot-on 'Andy1' - ran Mon-Sat am only at 'frequent' intervals.
Must try and find an even more obscure route!

[westyorkshirebus]

There was of course the original and latterly bizzare 501 which ran West Vale to Illingworth but only one trip per day.

[deerfold]

Jul 26, 2017 16:44:26 GMT 1 77syk7 said:

* To complete the list of services above, I forgot to mention the 3 times a day 527 which runs from Halifax to Round Hill, Illingworth.

To be complete, you'll need the once daily E7 too.

[77syk7]

Yes, thank you 'deerfold' - the E7 from Greetland - Brighouse M-F am only in one direction only.
With reference to 'westyorkshirebus' comment - I too can remember seeing the 501 appearing in West Vale in the evening around 7-8pm. Details were sketchy and it did start from Illingworth and run through Halifax and the Hospital - I am estimating this to be around 1989/90 - therefore TLW's first route.
Another even more elusive route was the 582 Halifax - Rye Lane which I have written down as running on Saturday mornings only to a 'frequent' timetable - dated 1st February 1990. However, I never remember seeing any buses and perhaps it never ran. Can any one of our members add any further info?

[deerfold]

I've a 15 October 1990 timetable for the 501. Metro reference 501/001.

This had a daily journey M-F from West Vale Shears Inn at 1805, via Halifax Crossley Street 1815-1820 to Illingworth 1836, returning at 1920, arriving West Vale 1945.

There were also another two journeys.
Tuesday from Illingworth at 1120, arriving West Vale 1145. This returned at 1315, but only to Halifax, taking 10 minutes.
Friday from Illingworth at 1220, arriving West Vale 1245. This returned at 1415, but only to Halifax, taking 10 minutes.

Does anyone know what these journeys were designed for? If they weren't minibuses I might guess they were positioning journeys for school journeys to swimming pools or suchlike.

[andy1]

Trevor had a works contract with a company called Bondina, which later became Freudenberg based up Saddleworth road Greetland, the above were vehicle positioning journeys ,Trevor lived at Illingworth .
As a footnote WYPTE , Yorkshire Rider and early days First all operated works contracts to this site, at all times of day, for many years.

[deerfold]

Aug 13, 2020 14:10:16 GMT 1 andy1 said:

Trevor had a works contract with a company called Bondina, which later became Freudenberg based up Saddleworth road Greetland, the above were vehicle positioning journeys ,Trevor lived at Illingworth .
As a footnote WYPTE , Yorkshire Rider and early days First all operated works contracts to this site, at all times of day, for many years.

Many thanks.

Ironically, my sister used to work there, though much later.

When my father retired, he sold his Ford Transit (which was a van which had been converted from a minibus) to Walsh who used it for spares.