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Post by martinsfp on Jun 8, 2017 14:59:52 GMT 1
Anyone who remembers the Leeds bus network in the mid-late 90s will understand why it needed to be substantially reworked. So many routes were weird hangers-on from the early days of deregulation, and there were some very weird travel options out there. These spring to mind - can anyone explain them:
1/1A: Leeds Bus Station - Holt Park 28/28A: Leeds Bus Station - Adel During Monday-Saturday daytimes, these services ran the same routes as they do today north of the city centre. They also (perhaps due to short turnaround times at each end?) had special 'works both ways' destinations on the blinds: 'Holt Park & City' and 'Adel & City' so the driver didn't need to change them at the terminus. The weird thing was the evening and Sunday routes. The 1A ran via Weetwood Lane, the ring road and Otley Road to Holt Park, while the 28A ran via Lawnswood, the ring road and Long Causeway to Adel. The only reason I can think of is that students at Bodington Hall halls of residence just north of the ring road on Otley Road wanted evening and Sunday access to the sports ground on Weetwood Lane (even though you could walk through from Lawnswood). Service 97 linked Bodington Hall and Weetwood Lane during Mon-Sat daytimes. I have no idea why they'd swap routes like that otherwise. Any ideas? There was also a 28C morning peak journey that ran from Adel to City Square, fact fans.
73: Old Farnley - Bramley - Kirkstall - Moor Grange Another thread on this board talks about how this service got cut back to only a couple of Saturday evening journeys. I remember this route from that time, but have no clue why it would only run then. Maybe Bramley had some hot Saturday night nightlife that people in Old Farnley, Kirkstall and Moor Grange were attracted to?
There might have been more, but these anomalies have stuck in my mind from those days.
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Post by martinsfp on Jun 8, 2017 15:13:22 GMT 1
There were weird route number anomalies too - like how the 20 (Cottingley - Beeston - Leeds) and 20A (Middleton - Leeds - Brackenwood) ran totally different routes when they were numbered so similarly.
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Post by www.buseireann.ie on Jun 8, 2017 17:26:54 GMT 1
Here's one from the early to mid 90s, 26, 27 and 27A Micro Rider minibus routes, these 3 routes ran everywhere with the strange Sunday evening 27A workings via the full length of Halton Moor Avenue, could never work that one out. Basically, as best I know it these routes ran from either Cross Gates or Colton (could have been both) via Temple Gate estate (27/A) and Temple Newsam access road (26), Temple Newsam terminus, Halton Moor estate (not 27A, that ran down to the full length of Selby Road to Halton Moor Ave, the rest turned off into the estate earlier up the hill), Osmondthorpe, Cross Green Ind Est, Knowsthorpe Lane, Cross Green Lane, Easy Road, Dial Street, Ellerby Lane, Saxton Gardens, Leeds City Centre, then on up Woodhouse, Hyde Park, Canal Road, Armley, Wortley and I think it then went on via Old Farnley to Cottingley although I could be wrong about the Old Farnley bit, certainly terminated at Cottingley. It was certainly one of the longest set of routes in the city at the time.
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Post by leeds rider on Jun 8, 2017 23:42:18 GMT 1
The real point of the 1A and 28A was that they actually ran through the grounds of Bodington Hall, along the private road, during university term times, when the students were in residence. They thus provided a safe way home for Bod students in the evenings, practically to their door. I never really understood why they still ran in the vacations, using the ring road instead of the Bod private road, rather than just reverting to the normal 1 and 28 at those times.
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Post by martinsfp on Jun 9, 2017 18:11:05 GMT 1
Ah interesting. In my time as a student in Leeds (from September 1997), the 95 (and 995 late night service on Fridays and Saturdays) served Bodington Hall in the evenings and on Sundays. I'm pretty sure by then the 1A and 28A served the ring road at all times of the year but maybe I'm mistaken.
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Post by Steve Macz403 on Jun 14, 2017 23:05:19 GMT 1
I remember the 74/76 used to have the Horsforth Sunday Extension from their Middleton-Leeds- Moor Grange routings along low lane, (to compensate for 63 (This was routed likethe 50A) is today. The 50 (and old 50A) was stuck to Broadgate Lane
The 74 also did a, Burley Road, Woodsley Road, Belle Vue Road, Park Lane, evenings and Sundays variation too. To compensate for the old 63 not running then.
Old 63 was Horsforth - Leeds - Halton Dial via all the backstreets
It was 50A routing to Butcher Hill, then up to the top, along old oak drive, down Spen Lane, left turn on up Kirkstall lane, then right around the back of the St Anne's and Beechwoods to Burley Park station, Brudenell road, Hyde park road, woodsley road and park lane to city And then out of the other end, basically same routing like the 15 of today. But then via Ivy street, skeltons and rookwoods to Halton Dial.
The 42A variation Seacroft - Fearnville - Leeds - Old Farnley
and the 43. fearnville - Leeds - Old Farnley ( which is today's 42)
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Post by A1YBG on Jun 15, 2017 7:25:01 GMT 1
I remember the 74/76 used to have the Horsforth Sunday Extension from their Middleton-Leeds- Moor Grange routings along low lane, (to compensate for 63 (This was routed likethe 50A) is today. The 50 (and old 50A) was stuck to Broadgate Lane The 74 also did a, Burley Road, Woodsley Road, Belle Vue Road, Park Lane, evenings and Sundays variation too. To compensate for the old 63 not running then. Old 63 was Horsforth - Leeds - Halton Dial via all the backstreets It was 50A routing to Butcher Hill, then up to the top, along old oak drive, down Spen Lane, left turn on up Kirkstall lane, then right around the back of the St Anne's and Beechwoods to Burley Park station, Brudenell road, Hyde park road, woodsley road and park lane to city And then out of the other end, basically same routing like the 15 of today. But then via Ivy street, skeltons and rookwoods to Halton Dial. The 42A variation Seacroft - Fearnville - Leeds - Old Farnley and the 43. fearnville - Leeds - Old Farnley ( which is today's 42) The 43 being operated by quickstep travel at the time.
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Post by Steve Macz403 on Jun 15, 2017 19:51:12 GMT 1
The group of Roundhay Road/ Chapeltown Road varieties You had the 2/3/20A/22A for Middleton 3/20/22A. and the 2 for Cottingley/White Rose (when that opened in 97) The 10(Main mon to Saturday route) Middleton Arms - Leeds - Roundhay Park 11 was used from time to time though not in the early nineties)/ 12 was a limited variation of 10 Middleton Thorpe Lane - Leeds - Roundhay Park) 13 was used but a quickstep Middleton - Leeds - St James variation) 19/19A/ Belle Isle Sharp House - Leeds - Roundhay Park, ran evening and Sunday's when the 10 didn't run. 22 I think did a Leeds - Belle Isle Sharp House (extended to Robin Hood and Rothwell) ( did a Mon to Sat Daytime version of the 19/19A) 21/21A/ 23/23A These both had their routes altered by late 90s. Both did a Middleton Thorpe Lane - Leeds - Brackenwood 21/21A or Gledhow 23/23A A split of routes created a daytime in the late 90s 21 Leeds - Brackenwood. (Extended to Moor Allerton centre similar to 38 routing from Lidgett Lane to King Lane Roundabout) 23 was simple just Leeds - Middleton thorpe Lane The evening and Sunday routes 21A/23A followed the original pattern above, Thorpe Lane- Leeds - brackenwood 21A/ Gledhow 23A Memories of these routes I travelled on a lot as a kid. On The Mcw Metrobuses. Common to these batch of routes and the 56/57 too. Got a bit disappointed if an Atlantean turned up as well at times, an Atlantean was on every other decker route out of Leeds in the 90s. Though I like the Atlantean as a Bus of Leeds. And I also remember Dennis Lances were very common on here too. After the Metrobuses were displaced to Kirkstall Road routes.
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Post by pontecarlo on Jun 19, 2017 13:43:52 GMT 1
Wasn't there a 7 Rothwell to Leeds run by Leeds city link that only ran one or two morning journeys in a single direction?
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Post by A1YBG on Jun 19, 2017 20:53:49 GMT 1
Holt park 1 Holt Park to Leeds Bus station while the 93/96 (now the 6) did Cookridge/Tinshill to Beeston and the extensions to cottingley eves and Sundays. Then swapped with the 1 later in the decade. Now the 1 does Holt park to Beeston. 81 Holt Park to Pudsey via Green Lane Cookridge and Horsforth. 82 Holt park to pudsey via Tinshill and Horsforth. 81A going via Tinshill Road suns and eves. 780 Leeds to Otley via Holt Park X93 Leeds to Horsforth Old Ball via Holt park and cookridge. The was an x96 think that replaced X93 to run via Tinshill Lane instead of Green Lane. Beginning of the decade was a 37 that ran Leeds to Holt Park then Horsforth Old Ball, Rawden and Leeds Bradford Airport running hourly and was usually an GM atlantean. Loved Holt park in the 90s. 1 was mixture of VRs and Atlanteans 81/2/81A Olympian, atlantean, jumbo atlantean and scania. 780 VRs, scania X93/6 atlantean. And back of asda was the 57 Ireland wood to Barwick using MCW metrobus or scania superbus.
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Post by Steve Macz403 on Jun 19, 2017 23:07:24 GMT 1
Remember when the 61/62 did full circulars.
61 running Leeds - Holbeck - Beeston - Hunslet - East end Park - Harehills - Chapeltown - Little London - Leeds , 62 running in the opposite way
And they both had B and C variations
The "C" variations were for Sunday Cross Green Market
And B variations used in the evening. both the C and B variations served a few extra places, including. St James, Brown Lane estate, Leeds uni, via St Marks Road,
the daytime 61/62 ran via Blackman Lane, and yes that Bus Gate that no bus ever uses today is still there. Though the 51 used Blackman lane when Lovell park bridge was closed for Leeds stadium rebuild.
61/62. Covered by the Dennis Dart/Plaxton Pointers.
I have seen other types covering from memory as a kid. MCW Metrobuses, Scania N113 striders, even the odd Dennis Lance/ Plaxton Verde.
Also the 58/60 58 running Leeds - Clarendon Road - Hyde park road - Little London - Leeds. 60 running opposite way.
I think the smaller 22** series Merc 709Ds were on here, quickstep ones. But I remember seeing an Atlantean on the 60 and thinking that's unusual.
Back to topic, both these routes really faded out in the Millenia when most of the Circular services were on a deathbed. 58/60 first and then the 61/62 later into the years.
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Post by www.buseireann.ie on Jun 20, 2017 0:09:13 GMT 1
Sorry Steve, just to slightly correct the 61/2 B and C variants, both ran evenings and Sundays with the B via Brown Lane and the C via Cross Green, I could understand why they served Cross Green residential areas but could never understand why they ran via Cross Green Ind Est on a night. As circulars, they no longer exist however the 61 still serves part of it's original route. I think there has been one very small section of 61 route that has always been served by it since the 1980s despite numerous changes to it's route and that's Cross Green Lane at it's junction with Easy Road.
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Post by Steve Macz403 on Jun 21, 2017 8:09:46 GMT 1
Sorry Steve, just to slightly correct the 61/2 B and C variants, both ran evenings and Sundays with the B via Brown Lane and the C via Cross Green, I could understand why they served Cross Green residential areas but could never understand why they ran via Cross Green Ind Est on a night. As circulars, they no longer exist however the 61 still serves part of it's original route. I think there has been one very small section of 61 route that has always been served by it since the 1980s despite numerous changes to it's route and that's Cross Green Lane at it's junction with Easy Road. That's a good point, I never really new much about the B/C variants, only remember looking at these from a 1998 metro Leeds bus map. Still intact, but worn. Lol.
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Post by nic on Sept 10, 2017 21:07:50 GMT 1
What about the 73* series of routes?
731 - Leeds Otley via 97 route to Yeadon and 33A but didn't serve Menston. Daytime Monday to Saturday. 732 - Leeds Otley via 33 route to Guiseley and then 33a to Otley but as above didn't serve Menston. 733 - Leeds Ilkley via 33 route, didn't go into Westfield or Westfield then went into Burley into Wharfdale then went into Ilkley via Leeds Road and not through Ben Rhydding. 734 - Leeds Ilkley as above but variation of the above route on Sundays and evenings. Not quite sure where it went. 735 - Leeds Otley via 33A route but then went over Chevin into Otley. Not sure how often that ran. 736 - Leeds Otley via present 33A route.
What a complex set of routes they once was. All by MCW Metrobuses and occasionally Scania.
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Post by Steve Macz403 on Sept 15, 2017 23:48:36 GMT 1
What about the 73* series of routes? 731 - Leeds Otley via 97 route to Yeadon and 33A but didn't serve Menston. Daytime Monday to Saturday. 732 - Leeds Otley via 33 route to Guiseley and then 33a to Otley but as above didn't serve Menston. 733 - Leeds Ilkley via 33 route, didn't go into Westfield or Westfield then went into Burley into Wharfdale then went into Ilkley via Leeds Road and not through Ben Rhydding. 734 - Leeds Ilkley as above but variation of the above route on Sundays and evenings. Not quite sure where it went. 735 - Leeds Otley via 33A route but then went over Chevin into Otley. Not sure how often that ran. 736 - Leeds Otley via present 33A route. What a complex set of routes they once was. All by MCW Metrobuses and occasionally Scania. These were all the West Yorkshire Road Car routes. Numbers were still kept well into the 2000s. Infact the whole route was changed quite later in 2002 and absorbed into the "overground 33/33A" Light Green Line as we know today. 734 was the same as the 733 route but via Menston and Westfield on Sundays and evenings. Mon to Sat was 732/733/736 all ran on 30 minute frequencies during the day. And these didnt form an 10 min frequencies, as I remember the timetable was like a bizarre 20/10/10/20 sort of route. (736 ran as far as Guiseley during the days) Sun and Eves was 734 hourly and 736 hourly. I think 735 only ran Sunday Daytimes via the Chevin. And the 731 help bulk up the infamous 655/755 between Yeadon and Leeds. (Today's 97) . As a kid I remember telling my Uncle the 731 doesn't go Via Kirkstall, it goes via Headingley. Easy mistake to make if you're not Bus savvy.
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Post by nic on Sept 16, 2017 12:53:53 GMT 1
I'm sure that the 736 went to Otley alongside the 732 but the 732 continued along Bradford road whilst the 736 went into Menston Village. I'm also confident that they interworked at Otley too 732/736 or 736/732.
Thats something i was going to mention. Rawdon got the hourly 755 and hourly 731 during daytime before the 97 come along.
Didn't the 755 and one of the bradford services (648 or 647) run every half hourly Yeadon to Bradford?
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Post by Steve Macz403 on Sept 17, 2017 0:15:35 GMT 1
Another anomaly.
Superbus routes 34 and the anolomy 34M.
The 34M ran via scott Hall road, and down Stainbeck Road then on Harrogate Road , Alwoodley Lane to The Avenue
Compared to the 34 which did the Scott Hall, Street Lane, Harrogate Road, Alwoodley Lane to the Avenue
Both 34/34M Turned into a 35 at the Avenue back to leeds. 35's that went out via a more direct Scott Hall, King Lane, to Alwoodley turned into 34s that went back into Leeds. (no moortown around the corner routing like today)
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Post by nic on Sept 17, 2017 19:43:12 GMT 1
Didn't a 47 service run too to Wigton Moor? For the life of me i cannot remember what served Shadwell.
I do seem to remember that at one point during the early days of First Leeds the 46, running Pudsey-Bramley-Leeds-White Rose, was changed to run Shadwell-Moortown corner-Harrogate Road-Leeds-White Rose-Morley-Gildersome.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Sept 17, 2017 21:04:13 GMT 1
Shadwell was the 45 replaced by the 7S
The 733/735 etc lasted until April 2003 when the 33/33A Light Green Line was created
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Post by Steve Macz403 on Sept 20, 2017 19:53:37 GMT 1
Didn't a 47 service run too to Wigton Moor? For the life of me i cannot remember what served Shadwell. I do seem to remember that at one point during the early days of First Leeds the 46, running Pudsey-Bramley-Leeds-White Rose, was changed to run Shadwell-Moortown corner-Harrogate Road-Leeds-White Rose-Morley-Gildersome. Ahh, was gonna say I think it was the 44. That did Pudsey- Bramley - Leeds - White Rose in the Millenium. Ironically before 1999 the 44 ran Pudsey-Bramley- Leeds - Roundhay Road- Wetherby Road- Whinmoor The 46 Leeds - Holbeck- Beeston - White Rose - Morley , before the shadwell extension. What was also odd is the 46 had a few evening journeys, white rose - Leeds One of which I remember boarding on an evening. Also there was the 68. For many years was an Ambermile route then first ran it. Then it became a Sunday's only route for a large Time in the Millenium. 68 ran Vicar Lane - Swinegate via Beeston Road (same route as 1) to Old lane - White Rose , this ran when the 46 didn't operate.
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Post by nic on Sept 20, 2017 21:42:23 GMT 1
That is correct Steve yes: 46 Shadwell-Gildersome eventually wasn't it? When they took over the black prince and then extended it to take over BP's Morley-Gildersome service merge it into one. Then the 64 took over; 46 was merged into the 7S with a frequency of every 20 minutes. A cut of a bus an hour when it was the 45/46.
What about the 94? Initially interworked with the 28 at LCBS, then for some strange reason took the eastern section of the old route 5 (where did that go by the way) and 88. They eventually withdraw the route and withdraw any sort of Whitehall Road competition.
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Post by Steve Macz403 on Oct 3, 2017 22:37:34 GMT 1
That is correct Steve yes: 46 Shadwell-Gildersome eventually wasn't it? When they took over the black prince and then extended it to take over BP's Morley-Gildersome service merge it into one. Then the 64 took over; 46 was merged into the 7S with a frequency of every 20 minutes. A cut of a bus an hour when it was the 45/46. What about the 94? Initially interworked with the 28 at LCBS, then for some strange reason took the eastern section of the old route 5 (where did that go by the way) and 88. They eventually withdraw the route and withdraw any sort of Whitehall Road competition. The 94 was an odd route just did Leeds - Drighlington Mostly allocated by kirkstall Roads Scania N113s double decks in the 90s and mainly remained unchanged. (Ended up serving Birstall Showcase during the evenings in addition) Especially when it ran in Arriva (Yorkshire Woolen) Territory parallel to the whole 254 routes. (223/224/254/255 old routes) How that end was merged onto the eastern part of the old 5. (Now 11) is a mystery, even on a reduced frequency. Every 30 mins for the old 5. And every hour for the 94. It had several alterations, even once became the 63, then withdrawn at a time in 2008 Arriva took over the 63 then doing the smart thing Arriva renumbered it 209. The 88 really was the BP route Bradford - Pudsey - Leeds - St James - Halton - Crossgates - Colton. A mixture of today’s X11 bradford to Leeds. And a weird but interestingl routing east of Leeds When first took over it then became Bradford - Leeds - Halton Moor. Fusion of the 88 and old 87 which was Morley - Middleton - Leeds - Halton moor. These routes gradually faded, Most of these routes run near parallel to higher frequency corridors
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Post by martinsfp on Oct 8, 2017 23:44:35 GMT 1
There was a brief time when the 46 and 55 extended across Leeds from Morley to serve Little London and a circular loop of Woodhouse. This replaced the withdrawn 60, a First Quickstep route that used to run Leeds - Little London - Woodhouse in the late 90s, every 7-8 minutes. Evening and Sundays it became an hourly circular, running back into Leeds from Woodhouse via Hyde Park and the west side of the university campus. The 58 did the reverse of this circular. The network was a mess back then.
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Post by deerfold on Oct 9, 2017 1:10:52 GMT 1
Found a 1992 timetable (23/02/1992).
731 Rhodes Coaches 2bph Leeds-Headingley-Horsforth-Yeadon-Guiseley White Cross - Menston Fox&Hounds-Otley (After 1645 to Guiseley only, after 1915 to Yeadon only). Not late evenings or Sundays. 732 Rhodes Coaches 1bph Leeds-Kirkstall-Horsforth-Rawdon-Guiseley White Cross - Menston Fox&Hounds-Otley. Hourly to 1430 then 1530NSch 1650 1845 (to Westfield). NSu. 33 Yorkshire Rider 2bph Leeds - Kirkstall-Horsforth-Westfield 733 Yorkshire Rider 2bph Leeds - Kirkstall-Horsforth-Menston Hare&Hounds - Ilkley 735/6 Yorkshire Rider 2bph Leeds - Kirkstall-Horsforth-Yeadon-Menston Hare&Hounds - Otley 2bph evenings/Sundays 734 Yorkshire Rider Evening/Sundays only 1bph LeedsKirkstall-Horsforth-Westfield-Menston Hare&Hounds - Ilkley A1 Yorkshire Rider/Rhodes Coaches 1bph Westfield-Yeadon-Guiseley-Otley not Eve/Suns X3 Rhodes Coaches 1 peak journey each way morning and afternoon Leeds - Kirkstall-Horsforth-Westfield-Menston St Peters Way-Otley
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Post by tinrocket on Oct 10, 2017 19:34:33 GMT 1
Speaking of an X3, I think there was one from Easington (County Durham) to Leeds in the late 90s/early 00s? Operated by Arriva I think.
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