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Post by angrycommuter on Jun 20, 2016 19:29:54 GMT 1
Bidders have been invited to put prices in for a new 7 year tender for York Park + Ride. Will First be successful again or will Transdev put in a winning bid? Interesting times ahead.
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WYBS
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Watch-o
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Post by WYBS on Jun 20, 2016 20:36:01 GMT 1
Someone (Can't remember who) was telling me that First had lost it and that Stagecoach had won it. I doubt there's any truth behind this but you never know.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Jun 20, 2016 22:22:52 GMT 1
I can't believe this has come round again.
There were loads of rumours last time that Transdev had won it, and low and behold, First retain it and carry on as normal.
I wouldn't be surprised if First win it.
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Post by deerfold on Jun 20, 2016 22:26:06 GMT 1
The timeframe for bidders has not yet closed, with a decision scheduled to be made in October.
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Jun 20, 2016 22:38:43 GMT 1
Ha ha, That sums it up quite well. Some know it all nutter probably on Facebook or Flickr knows for a fact that Stagecoach have won it, and the bidding process hasn't even finished!
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Post by the110 on Jun 22, 2016 16:47:31 GMT 1
I can confirm that Arriva have entered a tender.
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jc
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Post by jc on Jun 22, 2016 17:51:54 GMT 1
If Arriva got the contract it would be nice to see the 7 run nonstop, maybe leaving the door open for improved services round Fulford Broadway alongside the 415.
I'd be very surprised if Transdev didn't go for this aswell.
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Post by mutty on Jun 24, 2016 21:07:04 GMT 1
Hope LOT ain't tendered , they tender owt that moves !!!!!!!
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A1YBG
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METRO Here to get you there. Arriva Buses Here to get you there. Arriva need to get original slogans
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Post by A1YBG on Jun 25, 2016 12:35:20 GMT 1
Hope LOT ain't tendered , they tender owt that moves !!!!!!! Now imagine that they would put primo and breadvans on! Sent from my D6603 using proboards
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Post by the110 on Jul 7, 2016 21:26:22 GMT 1
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Post by ajw11239 on Jul 27, 2016 21:07:42 GMT 1
Arriva and First York have both prepared bids. I've heard Transdev are considering it - but the contract specifies a complete fleet of new vehicles (bar the electrics), meaning 24 new buses needing to be purchased which would be quite a lot for Transdev.
The idea was that the P&R fleet would become electric, with CYC putting in a bid to the Low Emission Bus Scheme for electric buses, charged with a pantograph-style system. However the bid was unsuccessful, so I'd imagine hybrids at best. I'm hoping the council have the sense to try and make them double-deck, since the services really need it. Particularly during School Holidays and especially on Bank Holidays, the evenings can see buses crammed full. Hopefully they also retain a decent standard of fleet with air conditioning etc, since the Versas do not have that.
And there has been a consultation to cut out all but one or two of the stops the 7 makes on Fulford Road, bringing it in line with all the other P&R services; if decided upon then that will begin with the new contract.
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WYBS
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Post by WYBS on Jul 29, 2016 15:58:34 GMT 1
Surely it would have made sense for Transdev to use the new buses they're getting for Harrogate for this bid. They would have surely won it.
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Post by deerfold on Jul 29, 2016 17:34:30 GMT 1
Surely it would have made sense for Transdev to use the new buses they're getting for Harrogate for this bid. They would have surely won it. Given they're got grants towards those new buses on the basis they'll be running around Harrogate, I doubt they could do that. If they are to use new buses, presumably they'll have to factor that into the cost they quote.
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Post by SCH117X on Jul 29, 2016 18:32:33 GMT 1
The electrics are definately for Harrogate.
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jc
Forum Member
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Post by jc on Jul 29, 2016 18:47:13 GMT 1
And there has been a consultation to cut out all but one or two of the stops the 7 makes on Fulford Road, bringing it in line with all the other P&R services; if decided upon then that will begin with the new contract. Wouldn't the existing P&R routes (maybe with the exception on the 59 though I've heard that's growing) be successful without stopping en route? I'm sure the Council are making a tidy return on it but it shouldn't be at the expense of routes like the 10, 13 or former 22/23 to Skelton and Clifton Moor. If they then have to boost frequency on parallel services that could work aswell (10A to Heslington East maybe).
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Jul 29, 2016 20:18:48 GMT 1
Arriva and First York have both prepared bids. I've heard Transdev are considering it . How do you know all this?
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Post by ajw11239 on Jul 29, 2016 21:24:57 GMT 1
Arriva and First York have both prepared bids. I've heard Transdev are considering it . How do you know all this? I know people who work for two of the three, and First it's pretty obvious will have prepared a bid. Surely it would have made sense for Transdev to use the new buses they're getting for Harrogate for this bid. They would have surely won it. Given they're got grants towards those new buses on the basis they'll be running around Harrogate, I doubt they could do that. If they are to use new buses, presumably they'll have to factor that into the cost they quote. This is right - the Bus Fund bids aren't just for the core vehicles - they're for the vehicles in specified locations - and are awarded on the basis of things such as populations / air quality in the area etc. So Transdev can't just move them. And on the comment about removing stops, I'm not sure if I've misinterpreted what you've said but all the other P&R routes run limited stop - hence the consultation on the 7; it is the only service which serves all stops en route.
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Post by stevieinselby on Oct 3, 2016 23:19:24 GMT 1
m.yorkpress.co.uk/news/14779542.NO_satisfactory_bids_received_to_run_York_s_Park___Ride_service/The headline says it all - none of the bids submitted for the York Park & Ride meets what the council was looking for. It sounds like the council was asking for too much money and was expecting too much from the service at the same time - the operator won't be able to pay the same hefty premium if it is expected to invest in a load of new electric buses but has to keep the fares down. There will be a discussion over what could be changed in the specification and then a second round of tenders will be invited.
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Post by ajw11239 on Oct 4, 2016 0:16:07 GMT 1
m.yorkpress.co.uk/news/14779542.NO_satisfactory_bids_received_to_run_York_s_Park___Ride_service/The headline says it all - none of the bids submitted for the York Park & Ride meets what the council was looking for. It sounds like the council was asking for too much money and was expecting too much from the service at the same time - the operator won't be able to pay the same hefty premium if it is expected to invest in a load of new electric buses but has to keep the fares down. There will be a discussion over what could be changed in the specification and then a second round of tenders will be invited. I was just about to post that! I think you're bang on - the way they're phrasing it makes it sound like a typical council using it as a Cash Cow. From reading the hefty document about the contract a few months ago a couple of options being considered were that the council were given a nice sum and at the same time the operator would be expected to grow numbers... Fleet costs must also come into that - the council want a new fleet, then if double deckers are desired, that's more on the cost, THEN if they want to by Hybrid/Electric, that's even more on it. Clearly they are pursuing this but I hope to god they choose a good service with good vehicles over making sure they get a tidy income from it. Cut this is CYC so you never know!
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Post by ajw11239 on Oct 18, 2016 21:20:00 GMT 1
This I did not expect to be saying on here - looking at this link from the York Press, it would appear that actually First did NOT prepare a bid for the new Park & Ride contract. They have agreed a 12 month extension whilst a new operator is found, but under a hugely reduced fee of £216,000, rather than the ~£800k which they used to pay per year. I cannot work out what's going on here at all? Apparently this has angered drivers there for obvious reasons - a huge proportion (50% of First's departures in York) of services are Park and Ride so will inevitably result in staff being moved on. I do wonder why they didn't bid for it - but if I was playing devil's advocate I would suggest a possible withdrawal.... First made a loss this year citing the set up costs for the Poppleton P&R and investment in other P&R facilities - so why they don't want to run it any more is beyond me... link: www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/14809026.Buses_cancelled_as_First_York_is_hit_by_staffing_crisis/
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Post by westyorkshirebus on Oct 18, 2016 21:31:22 GMT 1
That might just be poor local paper reporting, as the bit where it says they didn't bid, links back to last week's story about the council receiving no satisfactory bids.
Easy for a reporter to put two and two together there, and think receiving no satisfactory bids means receiving no bids because nobody put in a bid.
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Post by Arriva Wakefield on Oct 18, 2016 22:09:10 GMT 1
This I did not expect to be saying on here - looking at this link from the York Press, it would appear that actually First did NOT prepare a bid for the new Park & Ride contract. They have agreed a 12 month extension whilst a new operator is found, but under a hugely reduced fee of £216,000, rather than the ~£800k which they used to pay per year. I cannot work out what's going on here at all? Apparently this has angered drivers there for obvious reasons - a huge proportion (50% of First's departures in York) of services are Park and Ride so will inevitably result in staff being moved on. I do wonder why they didn't bid for it - but if I was playing devil's advocate I would suggest a possible withdrawal.... First made a loss this year citing the set up costs for the Poppleton P&R and investment in other P&R facilities - so why they don't want to run it any more is beyond me... link: www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/14809026.Buses_cancelled_as_First_York_is_hit_by_staffing_crisis/First have told staff that they didn't submit a bid against the original criteria as it would not be operationally viable. Believe the council are wanting a large cut of the revenue on the new contract, and most operators have said pretty much the same thing - how are we supposed to pay for the new buses you want within the length of the contract. I believe that the new contract may only be for 5 years rather than 7 as previously. HOWEVERA new set of criteria is currently being compiled, and First may bid against this if its suitable and viable.
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Post by ajw11239 on Oct 18, 2016 22:19:09 GMT 1
I do admire the hysteria of the York Press, but thought a bit of speculation might be interesting to see if people had heard anything. Good points there, and yeah - the report created from CYC on this has a few points which explains it I think: democracy.york.gov.uk/documents/s99745/Park%20Ride%20Report%20-%20Version%20for%20Executive%20240915.pdf- Point 31 specifies ultra low emission vehicles. Given that York's bid for the Low Emission Bus Fund was unsuccessful this would result in the operator having to fork out the complete cost, which is a considerable amount more. - Points 36-40 make it very clear the Council are interested at having it run whilst providing as close to the same fee as possible. This is about £800k personally, but I'm guessing it's too much now - if First are only running it for £216k this year rather than the full fee. What I imagine will happen is a compromise similar to what's happened in Cambridge, who were also unsuccessful in funding - their P&R fleet will be replaced by standard E400MMCs instead.
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Post by dwarfer1979 on Oct 19, 2016 8:08:07 GMT 1
I do admire the hysteria of the York Press, but thought a bit of speculation might be interesting to see if people had heard anything. Good points there, and yeah - the report created from CYC on this has a few points which explains it I think: democracy.york.gov.uk/documents/s99745/Park%20Ride%20Report%20-%20Version%20for%20Executive%20240915.pdf- Point 31 specifies ultra low emission vehicles. Given that York's bid for the Low Emission Bus Fund was unsuccessful this would result in the operator having to fork out the complete cost, which is a considerable amount more. - Points 36-40 make it very clear the Council are interested at having it run whilst providing as close to the same fee as possible. This is about £800k personally, but I'm guessing it's too much now - if First are only running it for £216k this year rather than the full fee. What I imagine will happen is a compromise similar to what's happened in Cambridge, who were also unsuccessful in funding - their P&R fleet will be replaced by standard E400MMCs instead. Essentially York has to make a decision as to whether it is more important to improve air quality in the city by favouring low carbon vehicle options or whether they are more interested in using it as a cash cow to fund council services. If you are pushing for something like complete conversion to electric operation you have to accept that this involves major upfront investment that needs to be recouped so the return to the council will be lessened. Having been in York recently and see the traffic in the evening peak I know which I would favour but politicians don't seem to think like that, especially in an age of austerity where any cash waved at them they will grab without really looking too deeply at the consequences (though they are also not known generally as being realistic enough to accept that they have to change a previously held position simply because it isn't possible). I'm not sure Cambridge is directly comparable as I'm not sure the exact status of the bus services, I have a suspicion they may even actually be commercial and the attempt for greener buses with funding was operator led (the bus numbers being talked about also appeared to involve more than just the P&R services). Looks like First were approaching this in a pretty sensible way without a win at all costs mentality though you can't help feeling they may have been better submitting a non-compliant bid (as it would appear others did if there were no satisfactory bids rather than no bids) to make a point and lay a marker for what the council could hope to get for when they re-run - and they didn't know whether the council had simply picked the best bid from those they received in the first attempt if none achieved all that they wanted, this often happens in the end as most councils are happy to receive alternate bids that accept a different proposal that offers savings or improvements.
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Post by Arriva Wakefield on Oct 19, 2016 10:52:03 GMT 1
How can they say that Askham Bar has been increased from 540 spaces to 1,100 spaces, unless they were counting Teaco as part of the old Park & Ride site?
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